Help with Reception on a Couple of Channels

[Snogoers]

Hello! I've not posted for around 5 years when I did my first and last post! I'm cutting the Dish and going to OTA tv along with Netflix. I have just installed a GE Pro Outdoor Yagi Antenna #33685 on the southeast corner of our house aproximately 25 feet up facing south/southeast. It is located under the eave on that side of the house facing the 2 distant channels I'm having trouble receiving. The antenna indicates 70 mile reception area on the box. I have a 100 foot cable running from antenna to house. Inside the house I have this cable connected to a GE Video Signal Amplifier#33341 and then the cable run to the TV in our basement family room. There are 6 towers that I should be able to pick up with 13 channels. The main channels of 11 and 13 are the ones I am having trouble receiving. All the others are pulling in a consistent 100% strength. The two towers at 56.4 miles each are either getting very low or no signal strength today. I had all 13 channels when I initially hooked up yesterday but now 13 is at 10% and 11 cannot be picked up. I've attached a copy of the TV Fool report for review. I am wondering if an antenna amplifier on the antenna itself will help me out?? Any suggestions or help would be appreciated.

[welkin]

Installing an HLSJ will block all frequencies (including the FM band) below VHF HI. I don't know if you plan to use your antenna for FM. Also, it would block KDLO CBS if you are receiving it on the backside of your antenna. Go Jackrabbits!

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=hlsj

[rabbit73]

I think inserting a HLSJ (high and common ports) between the antenna and the input of the amp is a good idea, but that one is discontinued. Try this one:
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=zhlsj

You DO have some strong FM signals that might interfere with the reception of KELO CBS and KSFY ABC. I did this FM signal report based on an estimate of your location from your tvfool report which was only resolved to block level:
http://www.fmfool.com/modeling/tmp/5...e/Radar-FM.png

You can do a more accurate FM report here:
http://www.fmfool.com/index.php?opti...pper&Itemid=29

I see a lot of trees in your area; trees block TV signals. Do you have any trees or other buildings in the signal path from 164 degrees magnetic?

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/antennas/siting.html
Scroll down to Trees and UHF

Grounding the coax with a grounding block will reduce the chance of interference.

If the antenna is outside, the coax shield should be grounded with a grounding block that is connected to the house electrical system ground with 10 gauge copper wire for electrical safety and to reject interference. For further compliance with the electrical code (NEC), the mast should also be grounded in a similar manner to drain any buildup of static charge which will tend to discourage a strike, but the system will not survive a direct strike.

I am wondering if an antenna amplifier on the antenna itself will help me out??

Maybe, but it might be overloaded by K50DG. And you certainly don't need a preamp AND the GE 24 dB amp. Try the HLSJ as an FM filter first.



Your two problem channels are on VHF-High, (real channels 7-13) but your GE antenna doesn't have much gain on that band.

The antenna indicates 70 mile reception area on the box.

We don't take mileage figures for antennas seriously, they are just marketing terms. We go by the signal strength on the report. What good is a 70-mile antenna if you have a hill 5 miles away in the path of the signal?

[Snogoers]

Thanks for the feedback on this issue. I'm assuming that ordering this item on line is probably the only option as there isn't an electronics outlet or home center that would carry these? I do have some old, well-established trees in my neighborhood but even if I mounted on the peak of my house I would not be above them. (attached physical address FM report as well.)
Does the antenna amplifier have a separate port for FM vs. UHF/VHF? Maybe that is not a fix because I want to block out FM and VHF-Lo?? The reason I ask is that I am using a homemade antenna as described at our MN cabin with an antenna amplifier. I'm typically picking up 13 - 16 channels. I'm wondering if I may have FM issues there as well because I have a hard time with a significant signal at different times during the day. I've attached a copy of the TV Fool report for both TV and FM signal for this location. The antenna is mounted on a 12 foot mast fastened to a fence post. (Reception did not seem to make any difference from higher up on roof line to this height/area). I have the most trouble with channel 35 and some low signal strength on 21. There are, of course, lots of trees there but the aim is almost down the driveway. I do notice difference in summer and winter somewhat. Just thought I would include this as I might as well order a couple of them. Thanks again!

[rabbit73]

I'm assuming that ordering this item on line is probably the only option as there isn't an electronics outlet or home center that would carry these?

Correct, order 2; you might have a problem at the cabin too.

Does the antenna amplifier have a separate port for FM vs. UHF/VHF?

Some preamps have a built in FM filter, but they aren't always sufficient.

I have a hard time with a significant signal at different times during the day.

What are the callsigns of 35 an 21 at the cabin, K35KH and K21HX? They seem quite strong.

I am using a homemade antenna as described

I don't see the description of the antenna.

If there are trees in the path from 73 degrees magnetic, that might be the problem.

Your reports for the cabin are only resolved to block level instead of based on coordinates; they might not be too accurate.

[welkin]

The second harmonic of any FM station freqs 99 to 102 could be interfering with channel 11 and freqs 105 to 108 interfere with channel 13. You have both ranges of freqs well in to the green on your FM report. I have channel 10 and 13 in my area and I could not tune them in. The signal was 10%. I borrowed a spectrum analyzer and determined 2 local radio stations were hammering me with their second harmonic. I installed a $3 HLSJ and the signal jumped to 60%+. I'm 60-70 miles away from each station. Both are 2edge, but I am well above any nearby (1/4 mile) trees. Make sure to use a 75 ohm terminator on the low side and install the HLSJ before any pre-amp, preferably as close to the antenna as possible.

[Snogoers]

I just readjusted my antenna slightly with a compass for positioning. I also lowered the antenna about 6 - 8" to get out of shadow of eave?? I currently have 13 channels. Channels 7.1 & 7.2 (50) Fox are now varying from 10% up to 80% very inconsistent. Channels 8.1, 8.2, 8.3 (8)PBS are 100% consistently. Channels 11.1, 11.2, & 11.3 (11) CBS are at 50% consistently. Channels 13.1, 13.2, & 13.3 (13) ABC are at 50% consistently. Channels 46.1 & 46.2 (47) NBC are at 100% consistently. This is at 4:00 pm. I will check the status this evening. I have not done anything different as far as blocking FM signal, etc. I did purchase a RCA Digital Signal Preamplifier #TVPRAMP1Z at Lowes this AM but have not installed as of yet in place of the GE Video Signal Amplifier. This does have an FM trap on it. Just too anxious to wait for the others to come via shipping but have not given up that idea!! Just may try the Preamp tomorrow to see if it makes any difference. If not, I'll return. Thanks!

[rabbit73]

I found the description of your homemade antenna on your previous thread from 2011.
Antenna Help at our cabin in N Minnesota
http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=2271

That antenna is suitable for K35KH, K24KT, and K21HX, which are UHF channels. It might even pick up KCCW which is a VHF-High channel that is stronger.

[rabbit73]

Channels 7.1 & 7.2 (50) Fox are now varying from 10% up to 80% very inconsistent.

K50DG Fox real channel 50 is your strongest channel. It might be causing overload of your amp or tuner; it certainly doesn't need any more amplification.

K50DG Noise Margin 59.1 dB.

59.1 dB NM + 5 dB UHF ant gain est - 6 dB coax loss + 24 dB amp = 82.1 dB NM; overload



Interpreting Noise Margin in the TV Fool Report
http://www.aa6g.org/DTV/Reception/tvfool_nm.html

What are your reception results now without the GE amp, with and without the HLSJ, WITH the coax grounded with a grounding block connected to the house electrical system ground?

What are you using for the signal strength readings, a TV or what?

I did purchase a RCA Digital Signal Preamplifier #TVPRAMP1Z

Try the RCA preamp in place of the GE amp, with and without the HLSJ FM filter, WITH the coax grounded with a grounding block. If the results are not satisfactory, substitute a CM 3410 and FM filter where the GE amp was located. Save the RCA preamp for the cabin experiments.

[Snogoers]

Thanks for the feedback on my homemade antenna. Yes, that was my initial posting as I wanted to find an antenna to try up there. It is satisfactory if I can get stronger signals on 21 and 35. I currently get 9.1 - 9.6 PBS; 12.1 & 12.2 CBS, 21.1, 21.3, 21.4, & 21.5 FOX; 24.1, 24.2, 24.3, & 24.4 NBC; and 35.1, 35.2, 35.3, & 35.4 ABC. Just trouble with 21 and 25 signal strength.I'll recheck my aim of the antenna and try the FM block on it also.

I appreciate the tips on my home antenna install as well. I just got home and I am receiving 11 and 13 at 60% as well as channel 50 (7.1 & 7.2) is still up and down with slightly less upper %. I am using my signal strength test on my TV. I will try with preamp tomorrow. I currently do not have a grounding block but will try one if I can find one locally. Should the block be located near the entry of the cable into the home? I currently have a 100 ft cable from antenna into house with ends on the antenna and where it connects to amp inside. So I probably need to cut and put ends on the cable where it enters the home??

[rabbit73]

Should the block be located near the entry of the cable into the home?

That is the usual location.



Sometimes when I am making a temporary test I connect the coax shield to a cold water pipe that I know is grounded, Another temporary way is to connect to the grounding pin socket of a properly wired 3-wire receptacle. To do that, I connect a wire to only the grounding pin of a spare 3-wire plug with nothing connected to the blades of the plug.



Satellite System Grounding
Part 2 - NEC Overview
Presented by Todd Humphrey

http://www.dbsinstall.com/diy/Grounding-2.asp

Todd Humphrey doesn't speak for the NFPA that publishes the NEC code, but he has some ideas that are helpful. The local electrical inspector (AHJ, authority having jurisdiction) has the final say if you are willing to get him involved. Some inspectors are more friendly than others; a local electrician could tell you.

[Snogoers]

Frustration! I tried the RCA preamp today. I hooked it up to try it to see if it would make a difference. I scanned the channels and all 13 came in with very strong signals. The lowest was probably 70% based on the TV signal strength indicator! So I wanted to complete the setup. I placed the rubber boots over the cable ends and tightened everything up good. When I went back to checking the channels I could only get channel 8 (3 PBS) 100% and channel 13 ABC (3 channels) 10 - 20%. I can't get Fox (2 channels), CBS (3 channels), 0r NBC (2 channels) at all as it won't p/u the signal for them!! I don't know what I did?? I checked the connections, adjusted the preamp closer to antenna, and tried slightly different positions on antenna aim but nothing works! Is it possible that the preamp went bad at electrical connection? Or would I not pick up anything if that were the case? I still do not have a grounding block and cable is laying on ground and overhang of roof. But I was getting strong signals on all 13 channels until I secured everything at antenna end!
I also tried just the cable without the signal amplifier prior to the preamp. There was some loss of signal strength on some of the channels without improvement on 50.

[rabbit73]

Sorry you are having trouble.

I scanned the channels and all 13 came in with very strong signals. The lowest was probably 70% based on the TV signal strength indicator!

That sounds good; at least you got it working for a while.

It could be a connection or the preamp. You will need to make a part-by-part substitution with known good parts even if it means you end up with a completely separate system. If you think that is a lot of trouble, it couldn't be any worse than what is happening now.

I know you are anxious to get it working, but please slow down and do it right the first time.