Antenna question from a complete newbie

bambam0099 · 5-Jun-2011, 6:17 PM

Thanks in advance to all the experts that answer my question.

Ok, I am a Directv subscriber that is getting fed up with the ridiculous rate they are charging me and it seems like they are continually nickel-and-diming me to death so I have been thinking about installing an antenna.

I went around and talked to a few neighbors that have had antennas up for a long time and they all tell me the same thing, "Before everything went digital, I was getting 10 channels but now that they've changed over, I only get 3".

Does that make any sense to anyone?

I looked up our area here on tv fool

My location

and can't for the life of me, understand what they mean. Is it simply because they need better/different antennas?

Appreciate any thought others might have and, since I've got your attention, what antenna would you recommend for my area? I have a 20-25' foot pole I can mount it on and of course, a rotating antenna is doable also.

Thanks again to all you experts.

John Candle · 6-Jun-2011, 4:10 AM

How many Tv's will be connected?? Post 2 more radar plots at 50 and 75 feet antenna height.

bambam0099 · 6-Jun-2011, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Candle

How many Tv's will be connected?? Post 2 more radar plots at 50 and 75 feet antenna height.

Ok...

I would like to run the antenna to 2, maybe 3 tv's.

As requested, 50' antenna height and 75' antenna height.

Did the "used to get 10, now get 3" statements from the neighbors make any sense to you? Is it just because they had old antenna's?

Thanks for taking the time to respond

Tower Guy · 6-Jun-2011, 1:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bambam0099

Did the "used to get 10, now get 3" statements from the neighbors make any sense to you?

It makes sense to me. The Syracuse stations on analog VHF would have made it to Remsen. To get them on UHF digital is possible but difficult.

If you want as many stations as possible it's worth trying for Syracuse. The antenna height doesn't make enough difference to install a tower. I'd get a 91XG, aim it at Syracuse, connect it to a 7777 preamp, and see what you get.

To get Utica stations may require a rotator or a second UHF only antenna such as a DB-2 or DB-4. WWNY is also possible with a Y10-7-13 connected to the VHF input of the 7777 preamp. There's no need to turn the VHF antenna.

bambam0099 · 6-Jun-2011, 4:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tower Guy

It makes sense to me. The Syracuse stations on analog VHF would have made it to Remsen. To get them on UHF digital is possible but difficult.

If you want as many stations as possible it's worth trying for Syracuse. The antenna height doesn't make enough difference to install a tower. I'd get a 91XG, aim it at Syracuse, connect it to a 7777 preamp, and see what you get.

To get Utica stations may require a rotator or a second UHF only antenna such as a DB-2 or DB-4. WWNY is also possible with a Y10-7-13 connected to the VHF input of the 7777 preamp. There's no need to turn the VHF antenna.

Really, really appreciate the response and the suggestions.

You mentioned 3 separate antennas. WWNY is not worth the cost of another antenna to me so, my final question would be, how would I install a 91XG and DB-4 on the same mast and would I connect both to the preamp?

I had a response "offline" that said "the stacker" would get me the Utica and Syracuse channels. I found that antenna...is that a viable option also?

Man, I thought this was going to be easy! You guys are worlds above me in this stuff!

Thanks again

John Candle · 6-Jun-2011, 6:24 PM

Your receivable Tv stations are weak in signal strength and are in different directions. Here is one way to do it. . To receive the stations in different directions down to WSPX ION Tv , you will need a high gain directional antenna. To do it with one antenna you will need a Winegard HD7698P antenna and a Winegard AP8700 preamp mounted on a ChannelMaster CM9521A rotor. The antenna will be 20 to 25 feet high. Of your reception situation going higher with the antenna does not get a stronger signal. The up side of one antenna and rotor is the stations can be received with one antenna. The down side is , the person that has control of the remote control of the rotor is the one that controls where the antenna is pointed. A way to to do it that each person has control of where the antenna is pointed is to have a , antenna , a preamp and rotor for each Tv.

bambam0099 · 6-Jun-2011, 6:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Candle

Your receivable Tv stations are weak in signal strength and are in different directions. Here is one way to do it. . To receive the stations in different directions down to WSPX ION Tv , you will need a high gain directional antenna. To do it with one antenna you will need a Winegard HD7698P antenna and a Winegard AP8700 preamp mounted on a ChannelMaster CM9521A rotor. The antenna will be 20 to 25 feet high. Of your reception situation going higher with the antenna does not get a stronger signal. The up side of one antenna and rotor is the stations can be received with one antenna. The down side is , the person that has control of the remote control of the rotor is the one that controls where the antenna is pointed. I'll be back with a easy to understand explaination of doing it with more then one antenna.

Thanks, I feel like I'm actually learning something here!

Very interested in your explanation of using/joining more than one antenna for a single "source" and then splitting to possibly 3 tv's since using a rotor would be chaos in our house, especially when my wife and I are fighting over what channel to watch! LOL!

Eagerly anticipating your explanation.

Thanks again...really appreciate it!

John Candle · 6-Jun-2011, 9:28 PM

Well like my updated post says you can do it with a HD7698P antenna , AP8700 preamp and rotor at each Tv. Or here is an other way you can do it , with a Antennas Direct 91XG UHF antenna connected to a Winegard AP4700 preamp pointed at about 190 degree magnetic compass. . And a Winegard HD7698P antenna connected to a Winegard AP8275 preamp and pointed at about 332 degree magnetic compass. Antenna heights of 20 feet or so is Ok. The down leads from each antenna of the 2 antennas will be kept separate , never connected/combined on to one coax. As an example if one Tv is to be used with the 2 antennas then the down leads from each antenna are brought to the Tv location and connected to a A/B antenna switch such as a AB27RS or radio shack 15-1968 and then the one output of the A/B switch is connected to the Tv. If 2 Tv's are to be connected then a 2 way splitter is connected to each of the 2 antenna down leads. And a A/B switch is at each of the 2 Tv's. If 3 Tv's are connected then it's the same kind of hookup but 3 way splitters are used. With the the 2 antenna set up ION Tv will not be received as the stations are weak and the ION station will be coming in on the side of the antenna and not be received. There is an other way to do it and Ground Ur Mast can tell you about it if you like. As you are begining to understand , the price of going in is high , it can easley go to 600 dollars for a 2 and 3 Tv hookup. Here are some places to buy Tv antennas and etc.. , http://www.solidsignal.com , http://www.3starinc.com , http://www.starkelectronic.com , http://www.amazon.com

John Candle · 7-Jun-2011, 4:43 AM

I googled W53AM UHF channel 42 and it is the MyTvNetwork. And WVVC-LP 33 is a religion channel. WFXV-DT 27 is FOX. , WKTV 29 is NBC and The CW. , WUTR 30 is ABC and MyTvNetwork. , WWNY 7 is CBS and FOX. , WPBS 41 is 4 PBS channels. WSPX 14 and 15 is ION. As you may or may not know , digital tv can transmit the main Tv channel and Tv sub channels.

Tower Guy · 7-Jun-2011, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bambam0099

how would I install a 91XG and DB-4 on the same mast and would I connect both to the preamp?

I had a response "offline" that said "the stacker" would get me the Utica and Syracuse channels. I found that antenna...is that a viable option also?

The stacker is a combination VHF/UHF antenna. The Utica and Syracuse stations are all UHF. The one VHF station worth receiving is aimed in a different direction. The stacker aims both antennas in the same direction. The gain of the stacker is probably too low for the Syracuse stations. Those factors suggest that a stacker would disappoint you.

The cheapest way to go between Syracuse and Utica is an A/B switch. There is no cheap and efficient way to combine them. You can combine a VHF antenna for WWNY with the Utica antenna, and get a full compliment of networks without a switch.

John Candle · 7-Jun-2011, 10:52 PM

The HD Stacker Is Not a magic antenna. I am well aware of the hd stacker , I know how it is advertised , I know what it is and is not , I know the wide eyed hysteria that surrounds it. The humans are a crazy bunch , they go off on benders about crazy stuff.

John Candle · 7-Jun-2011, 11:17 PM

Well lets see " A full complement of networks with out a switch" . What Tower Guy is suggesting is a VHF high band only antenna to receive WNNY 7 CBS and a UHF only antenna to receive WKTV 29 NBC - CW , WFXV 27 FOX , WUTR 30 ABC - MyNetwork , W53AM 42 MyNetwork , WVVC 33 Religion . If all my research is correct , then that leaves out PBS that is on WPBS UHF 41.

Tower Guy · 7-Jun-2011, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Candle

If all my research is correct , then that leaves out PBS that is on WPBS UHF 41.

Look on www.rabbitears.info for W22DO. It's a digital translator for WCNY. http://www.rabbitears.info/search.ph...earch&state=NY

There was an accident last year when the antenna was installed. Several riggers were hurt, but no fatalities. http://www.allaccess.com/net-news/ar...-injures-three

John Candle · 8-Jun-2011, 4:11 AM

Well then with W22DO-D transmitter located to the south and transmitting on UHF 22 , that makes it simple. To start with aim a Winegard YA1713 VHF High band antenna at WNNY-DT 7 at 337 degree magnetic compass. Next aim a Antennas Direct 91XG UHF only antenna at about 180 degree magnetic compass and you will get every thing except the Syracuse channels at 251 magnetic compass and 276 magnetic compass , ION is located at 276 magnetic compass the other Syracuse channels are at 251 magnetic compass , the Syracuse stations will not be received. Connect the 2 antennas with a UHF / VHF combiner , like a Pico Macom model UVSJ. The UVSJ combines the 2 antennas into one down lead , the one down lead is then connected to a Winegard AP8700 preamp and that one lead from the preamp can then be split 2 to 3 way with a simple splitter. It's real simple and won't cost much money. You still won't have ION or any of the stations that are in the direction of Syracuse and thats Ok because you will have all the other networks , NBC , ABC , CBS , FOX , MyNetwork , CW , PBS , and a religion station from the direction of Utica. I have ION where I live and the main ION channel has went to very violent programing so it's no great loss.

John Candle · 8-Jun-2011, 4:16 AM

Much thanks to Tower Guy for going way beyond what a sane person would do of tracking this information down. The world of Digital Broadcast Television is changing fast , more new channels are being added all the time and new transmitters are are being fired up.

Tower Guy · 8-Jun-2011, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Candle

Much thanks to Tower Guy for going way beyond what a sane person would do of tracking this information down.

I knew the story about PBS in Utica without looking it up. I did verify what I already knew. What I learned is that WCNY never told the FCC that they built the station, or the FCC lost the paperwork.

bambam0099 · 8-Jun-2011, 12:34 PM

Thanks so much for all your hard work guys. There is no way in hell I would have ever found this out on my own!

I had a local dealer tell me that all I needed was a Channel Master 4228HD without an amp or rotater...I'm definitely listening to your suggestions instead!

Thanks again, really appreciate it

EDIT: Which Winegard AP8700 preamp are you recommending, the WINEGARD AP-8700 U/V PREAMPLIFIER or the Winegard AP-8700 Preamplifier High Gain ? (I assume the later but just want to make sure before ordering).

Tower Guy · 8-Jun-2011, 1:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bambam0099

Which Winegard AP8700 preamp are you recommending?

Those are two descriptions for the same product.

bambam0099 · 8-Jun-2011, 2:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tower Guy

Those are two descriptions for the same product.

Amazon shows 2 different products (look at the links I supplied), one for $54.68 and the other for $36.11.

> aim a Antennas Direct 91XG Uhf only antenna at 180 degree magnetic compass and you will get every thing except ION

So am I correct in assuming that this one antenna pointed 180 degree mc will get the Utica and Syracuse channels? (minus ION as you said)

Thanks again...I'll be ordering as soon as the amp question is figured out

Tower Guy · 8-Jun-2011, 2:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tower Guy

What I learned is that WCNY never told the FCC that they built the station, or the FCC lost the paperwork.

The actual sequence of events is that the station remains off the air while the tower situation is resolved. The solution is in the works.