Completely Stumped in Bedford

GrahamA · 3-Jun-2011, 2:30 PM

I live in Bedford, NY. I have recently dropped cable and have tried valiantly to replace it with OTA TV, but have not been able to do so. I welcome any suggestions or help you may have.

My location is as follows:

http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?opti...pper&Itemid=90

I have tried both an Antenna's Direct ClearStream 4 and a ChannelMaster CM-4228HD antenna. I have used them with a ClearStream CPA-19 Pre-Amp. The Cable is aboout 100 feet long but copper and shielded and goes into a Channel Master Model 3418 Video Amplifier before heading to TVs. There are no other signal splitters in the path.

A TV installer helped me with the set up. The antenna is 20 to 25 feet above ground. We tested for signals with 3 feet of cable off the antenna as well using the Antenna's Direct HDTV signal meter. We used a sailor's compass with error correction to direct the antennas into the appropriate directions to receive signals. Still no reception with anything that we tried.

I am trying to get the stations in NYC and Newark (35-40 miles away) and am willing to go with a directional antenna if that is the problem, but I have no idea where the issue lies. We checked and rechecked all wire connections. My installer and various websites indicated that these antennas were the ones to go with.

I live on a hill and have no idea what else to do to troubleshoot the situation. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks.

mtownsend · 3-Jun-2011, 4:46 PM

Sorry, but the link you provided just goes to the Interactive Maps tool.

On the map page, you need to press the "Make Radar Plot" button, and then post the URL from the newly generated page with the radar plot and transmitter details. The link should look something like "http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" where the "xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" is a unique ID for your report.

Tower Guy · 3-Jun-2011, 4:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrahamA

I live in Bedford, NY.

I live on a hill and have no idea what else to do to troubleshoot the situation.

You have three issues;

The Tvfool report that you posted is the data entry page, not the results page. The generic report for Bedford, NY is: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...2193a0aa8441af

Both of the antennas that you have tried are UHF only. WABC, WPIX, and WNET are on VHF channels.

You have both a preamplifer and an amplified splitter. One or the other is OK, but not both. WRNN and WTBY are rather strong in Bedford.

Tower Guy · 3-Jun-2011, 4:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrahamA

My installer and various websites indicated that these antennas were the ones to go with.

Argggggh. No one here would have made that mistake.

GrahamA · 3-Jun-2011, 5:30 PM

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...2193b76003503c

Here is the correct link, I hope....

GrahamA · 3-Jun-2011, 5:35 PM

Dear Tower Guy,

I am not even gettting a signal when I am not using the amplified splitter and only using 3 feet of cable. No signal at all. I can't figure it out. I have also tried not using the pre-amplifier either. Still no signal.

GrahamA · 3-Jun-2011, 5:39 PM

Do I need a VHF only antenna? A hybrid UHF/VHF? Which one(s) should I get? Many thanks.

Tower Guy · 3-Jun-2011, 5:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrahamA

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...2193b76003503c

Here is the correct link, I hope....

That link shows weaker signals from all stations. Using the same coordinates indicates a problem with a strong FM station WFAF at -27.2 dbm. Yet the Clearstream 4 antenna that you have has very little sensitivity on FM.

That would lead me to conclude that there is a fault in something. The coax could be shorted or open, the balun could be defective, the preamp might be connected improperly, the preamp and/or power supply might be bad out of the box, or the 120 volt outlet with the preamp power supply is dead.

Occasionally the antenna can be aimed wrong, not because you didn't sight it properly with the compass, but some inexperienced installers have misunderstood which is the front of a particular antenna and which is the back.

John Candle · 3-Jun-2011, 7:07 PM

So as to get rid of problems , get rid of ALL and I mean ALL amplifiers , preamplifiers , amplifier power supplies , power injectors and any thing else that has any thing at all to do with amplifiers. With one coax connected from the antenna to one Tv with NO splitters , Set the Tv to scan for --> Digital Broadcast Tv Channels. NOT cable Tv Channels and NOT Analog Tv Channels. If the Tv will not receive Digital Broadcast Tv Channels. Then a converter box is needed , http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=380. . Aim the Tv antenna at --> about <-- 230 magnetic compass. Here is how to aim Tv antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html Turn the the antenna to the left and right for best reception. All this information I have put so far is not the final answer ,this information is to stop you from chasing your tail. This information is to get you going on the right track. . Look inside all connectors on the ends of the coax , is the foil shied and shield wires pushed in toward the center conductor?? The center conductor is what carries the signal , is one or more of the shield wires wrapped around the center conductor?? If so push the foil shield and shield wires away from the center conductor. If a shield wire is wrapped around the center conductor then remove the shied wire from the center conductor. Are there any metal flakes on the foam that is in between the center wire and the foil shield/shield wires?? If so , remove the metal flakes. And I agree with Tower Guy , and I will take it even further , there are way too many people that think they know about Tv reception with Tv antennas and do not have clue one , are only concerend with their own self image and give out bad advice.

John Candle · 3-Jun-2011, 7:11 PM

The Tv stations at your location are weak. I suggest a Winegard HD7084P All channel antenna. And maybe a amp. . However First install the antenna first and see what the reception is. Here are some places to buy Tv antennas and etc.. http://www.solidsignal.com , http://www.starkelectronic.com , http://www.3starinc.com , http://www.amazon.com

John Candle · 3-Jun-2011, 10:13 PM

Rabbit Ears , http://www.rabbitears.info/market.ph...callsign=51441 shows that WKOB-LD 2 is transmitting on digital channel 2 and is transmitting 5 digital sub channels , 2.1 Daystar , 2.2 Daystar , 2.3 RTV http://www.myretrotv.com , 2.4 HOT TV http://www.hottvchannel.com , and 2.5 infomercials.

John Candle · 3-Jun-2011, 11:11 PM

radio shack has FM trap model number 9FT293C-1 , catalog number 15-024. A FM trap reduces the strength of Strong local FM radio transmissions that can interfer with digital or analog Tv reception.

GrahamA · 4-Jun-2011, 9:45 PM

Thank you. I will try the Wineguard without and then with the pre-amp and then with an FM trap if necessary and report back.

Tower Guy · 5-Jun-2011, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrahamA

Dear Tower Guy,

I am not even gettting a signal when I am not using the amplified splitter and only using 3 feet of cable. No signal at all. I can't figure it out. I have also tried not using the pre-amplifier either. Still no signal.

Have you switched the TV from the CATV mode to off air mode?

GrahamA · 5-Jun-2011, 2:08 PM

Dear Tower Guy and John Candle,

"Have you switched the TV from the CATV mode to off air mode? "

(I am not even gettting a signal when I am not using the amplified splitter and only using 3 feet of cable. No signal at all. I can't figure it out. I have also tried not using the pre-amplifier either. Still no signal.)

Yes, we switched off CATV mode and to OTA mode using the antenna. We have TVs with and without internal tuners. For TVs that are monitors (without tuners), I am using an Electronic Master Digital ATSC HDTV TV Tuner p/n DCT102 purchased from www.barrel-of-monkeys.com.

There are no problems with the connections on the coax. We have checked those connections. I hope there are no internal problems with the coax as that would take a major effort to solve at this point. I do not have coax testing equipment either, but I suppose I would have to get it if I rule out everything else after getting a Winegard antenna and trying that.

GrahamA · 5-Jul-2011, 7:19 PM

I am reporting back as I indicated I would and unfortunately the news is not good. Nothing worked. I could not pick up any signals. I feel I have tried just about everything and it is time to hang my head low and call Cablevision and request Broadcast Basic. At least I can return the cable box they will bring and keep the monthly fees fairly low, but it is very disappointing after a lot of time and money. I was looking forward to uncompressed digital OTA TV.

With a friend, I installed the Winegard HD7084P all channel antenna with the Radio Shack FM trap model number 9FT293C-1. We checked and double checked the coax cable and all connections. I bought new coax cable as well and tried again. I used the ClearStream CPA-19 Pre-Amp afterwards to see whether that would make a difference. It did not. I still could not pick up any signals in any direction.

To determine whether I could detect a signal I tried a TV with an internal tuner and a TV monitor using an Electronic Master Digital ATSC HDTV TV Tuner p/n DCT102 purchased from www.barrel-of-monkeys.com. I used auto scan for digital broadcast signals. I used a hand held HDTV Signal Meter purchased from Antennas Direct as well. I was not able to detect any HDTV signals using any of these methods.

I don't quite understand why I cannot receive any signals at all. Perhaps it is because of all of the very tall trees surrounding the house. I live on a hill and thought I could get reception. I did not think trees would be so disruptive. I cannot think of any other reason.

Tower Guy · 5-Jul-2011, 7:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrahamA

I don't quite understand why I cannot receive any signals at all. Perhaps it is because of all of the very tall trees surrounding the house. I live on a hill and thought I could get reception. I did not think trees would be so disruptive. I cannot think of any other reason.

I don't either. You could take everything to a better location, try it again to make sure that things are working and configured properly. Once you've verified that it's set up correctly you can retry in Bedford.

mtownsend · 5-Jul-2011, 9:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrahamA

There are no problems with the connections on the coax. We have checked those connections. I hope there are no internal problems with the coax as that would take a major effort to solve at this point. I do not have coax testing equipment either, but I suppose I would have to get it if I rule out everything else after getting a Winegard antenna and trying that.

Quote:

We checked and double checked the coax cable and all connections.

When you say you checked the coax, did you check for the following:

Unintended shorts between the center conductor and the outer shielding
Continuous connection along the center conductor from one end all the way to the other
Continuous connection along the outer shielding from one end all the way to the other

Your report suggests that the TV signals should not be that hard to receive with a rooftop antenna, so I'm inclined to agree with Tower Guy that there is probably something (hopefully simple) broken / damaged / mis-configured in the existing setup.

Testing each piece separately (receiver, antenna, balun, FM trap, coax, amps, etc.), perhaps at a friend's house or some other known good location, might narrow down the problem through the process of elimination. Start with the most simple setup possible, make it work, and then add components one at a time until something stops working.

GrahamA · 5-Jul-2011, 10:31 PM

For the purpose of testing the Winegard, I bought 100 feet of new coax (just in case) and had it checked by a friend who owns an audio/video company and has the testing equipment for installations. The coax was not the problem. He doesn't do OTA, but couldn't think of any reason why we would get no signal.

I have tried three separate antennas. It is possible that they all came with defective parts, but the chances of that are highly unlikely.