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Old 13-Jun-2012, 5:22 PM   #1
johloh
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Help getting channels in 97526

I've tried 4 different antennas now and can't get half the channels I think I should be picking up... I'm not the type to normally ask for help but this is driving me crazy, and I cant figure out a solution... hopefully the knowledgeable people on these forums can help me out... I'm only looking to pick up the green stations listed on tv fool, I'm not greedy.

TV FOOL link
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...1349dd2a393117

First Try - OLD Rabbit Ears with a loop. passive.

Second Try - Fractal Antenna (built by me)

Third Try - Coat Hanger Antenna (DB4 style) (built by me)

Fourth Try - Walmart multidirectional amplified antenna

All of these gave approximately the same results...I would guess the walmart was the worst one.

Here are my numbers off the walmart antenna...
Channel 49 - 42%
Channel 15 - 64%
Channel 44 - 42%
Channel 30 - 40%
Channel 19 - 70%
Channel 22, 47, 2, 5, 8, 4, 25, 38, 12 - 0%

With my DB4 coat hanger I picked up 15(abc), 44(fox), 19(pbs) all without pixelation, but I didnt check signal strengths. I could pick up channel 5 on occasion but it broke up quite a bit.

When I plugged the antennas into my old TV (analog) we only picked up 2 stations regardless of which antenna was used. 50 and 47. 47 was really clear, 50 was a bit staticy but still clear.

You'll notice almost all the analog channels are in the same location, about 1.6 miles away, I can actually see the stations up on a hill, and went as far as to pull my tv out on the front lawn, point the DB4 antenna directly at the station and still only got 50 and 47, and not any clearer than inside the house.

Any suggestions?? It seems like we have a ton of stations really close to us and after reading lots of posts where people are fighting to pick up stations 40+ miles away, that this should be easy... I think I must be missing something obvious here.

thanks!

Last edited by johloh; 13-Jun-2012 at 5:25 PM.
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Old 13-Jun-2012, 6:40 PM   #2
GroundUrMast
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The photo of the fractal antenna suggests that the elements are far too short. The matching transformer appears to be a Radio Shack 15-1230. If so, it makes a fair gauge to scale the rest of the photo from. As such, the antenna may be a fairly good antenna in the 700 to 900 MHz (cell phone) range but not in what's left of the OTA TV UHF range and certainly not down in the VHF spectrum.

The 4-bay bow tie looks better. However, the stubs at the top and bottom may be acting as traps (filters). I would cut the extra phase line stubs off. Leave no more than 3/8" beyond the upper and lower 'whisker' attachment screws. That said, the 4-bay is only going to do well in the UHF band. As you've already observed, VHF signals such as KOBI are not going to be received well by this type antenna.

The Wallmart antenna looks like a Mohu Leaf... likely a UHF only design.

As far as receiving only two analog signals is concerned, there may only be two left on the air. If so, they're not going to stay on the air forever, the FCC will force them to switch to digital or go silent by about 2015 if I'm not mistaken. Your older analog set needs a DTV converter (obviously).

The Low-VHF signals are more challenging due to noise/interference generated by various sources like power lines, computers, automobile ignition systems, etc. Still, I would try to go after those signals.

A simple one antenna solution would be a Winegard HD7000R roof mounted, aimed south, about 165 compass.

Also, take a look at rabbitears.info, they are a good source re. what's on the air and what's not.
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Old 13-Jun-2012, 7:04 PM   #3
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If you are interested in getting every possible signal a larger antenna would be needed.

As the antenna size is increased, particularly those designed for high gain, they become more directional which may force you to consider a rotator.
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Old 13-Jun-2012, 8:21 PM   #4
MisterMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johloh View Post
I've tried 4 different antennas now and can't get half the channels I think I should be picking up... I'm not the type to normally ask for help but this is driving me crazy, and I cant figure out a solution... hopefully the knowledgeable people on these forums can help me out... I'm only looking to pick up the green stations listed on tv fool, I'm not greedy.

...

Here are my numbers off the walmart antenna...
Channel 49 - 42%
Channel 15 - 64%
Channel 44 - 42%
Channel 30 - 40%
Channel 19 - 70%
Channel 22, 47, 2, 5, 8, 4, 25, 38, 12 - 0%

With my DB4 coat hanger I picked up 15(abc), 44(fox), 19(pbs) all without pixelation, but I didnt check signal strengths. I could pick up channel 5 on occasion but it broke up quite a bit.

...

Any suggestions?? It seems like we have a ton of stations really close to us and after reading lots of posts where people are fighting to pick up stations 40+ miles away, that this should be easy... I think I must be missing something obvious here.

thanks!
First let me say that I agree with GroundUrMast. Next, let me say that except for the readings of "0," your signal meter readings are meaningless. There is no standard for signal meters in digital TV sets. Personal example: I have a Samsung digital TV with a signal meter measures signal strength as the number of bars as with a cell phone. The set often gets better reception at 2 bars than it does at 4 bars. One of the things that these meters cannot tell you is whether or not your signal is a clean 20% strength on a single line or a multipath signal at 60% strength.

But I digress.

Clarification Your "Walmart" antenna is actually a RCA antenna that is sold at Walmart and other outlets. The RCA flat antenna and your DIY antennas are UHF antennas.

Except for KBLN (RF30), all of your full-power stations are VHF. Also, except for KBLN (RF30), your strongest signals are broadcast by are low-power translators.

The thing that you are missing is that you live at a location of rugged terrain. Forty miles? Look at your TV Fool Radar plot for stations in red, yellow, and green. These are the signals that you may reasonably expect to receive. There is not a single TV transmitter that you can reasonable expect to receive that is farther than 25 miles from you.

That said, many of the translators in your area retransmit the signals from Medford stations to viewers in Grants Pass. Check the call sign of each translator on RabbitEars.Info to see which signal it carries.
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Old 13-Jun-2012, 8:28 PM   #5
Electron
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ALL questions and answers about Tv reception and more

The tvfool report is showing the antenna height at 4 feet above ground.

Please make a tvfool radar peport plot with the antenna height at 25 feet above ground.
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Old 13-Jun-2012, 9:17 PM   #6
johloh
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25 foot report

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...1349baa72a24ad

I was using the 4foot because I was testing stuff out before I went up on roof.

Maybe I'm reading the chart wrong? All of the green channels look to me to be in uhf?? Seems like the far away ones are vhf. I'm only trying for stations at 1-3 miles.

Tvfool says green channels can be picked up on set top box, I was hoping to not have to put a big antenna on the roof.
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Old 13-Jun-2012, 10:03 PM   #7
johloh
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Now I'm confused. Rabbitears says there is only 3 stations in grants pass. 8, 12, 26... I get those. Is that all I can get? Were in a valley so I don't expect to get other cities, but tvfool lists way more than 3 stations in grants pass....

Rabbitears 3 stations...?
Tv fool 11 green stations within 3 miles....?

Last edited by johloh; 13-Jun-2012 at 10:06 PM.
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Old 13-Jun-2012, 10:26 PM   #8
Electron
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The 4 foot antenna height and 25 foot antenna height BOTH show way more receivable Digital Tv Stations Channels then three Tv channels.

It is best to make a tvfool report with a antenna height that is more then 4 feet above the ground.

That is why I requeted the 25 foot height , to get a more Real evaluation of the reception situation.

Now I can compare.

The Tv transmissions are STRONG at your location and many channels will be received at 4 feet or 25 feet , way more then 3 channels.

Last edited by Electron; 13-Jun-2012 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 13-Jun-2012, 10:56 PM   #9
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For the best reception I recomand a Winegard HD7000R antenna mounted above the roof is ok (does not need to be 25 feet above the ground) aimed at about 120 degree magnetic compass.
Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Here are some antenna mounts , http://www.ronard.com/909911.html , http://www.ronard.com/34424560.html , http://www.ronard.com/ychim.html , http://www.ronard.com.

Buy the ronard antenna mounts at solidsignal by typing the word ronard in the solidsignal search box or buy from ronard.

http://www.solidsignal.com , http://www.winegarddirect.com , http://www.amazon.com
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Old 14-Jun-2012, 2:13 AM   #10
GroundUrMast
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Quote:
Now I'm confused. Rabbitears says there is only 3 stations in grants pass. 8, 12, 26... I get those. Is that all I can get? Were in a valley so I don't expect to get other cities, but tvfool lists way more than 3 stations in grants pass....
When you look up each of the digital signals listed in your TVFR (see below), you get more than three... (NBC, Accuweather, ABC, FOX, MeTV, 3ABN, PBS, WorldTV, PBS Encore, Create, CBS and CW+) Not LA, Chicago or New York... but better than some areas around the country.

K20DT -- 20 -- ???
K49JE -- 49 -- NBC, KOBI translator -- Accuweather
K15BP -- 15 -- ABC, KDRV translator -- Duplicate in SD
K44JB -- 44 -- FOX, KMVU translator -- MeTV
KBLN -- 30 -- 3ABN
K04EY -- 04 -- NBC, KOBI translator
K19HS -- 19 -- PBS, KSYS translator -- WorldTV, PBS Encore, Create
K25JW -- 25 -- CBS, KTVL translator -- CW+, Duplicate in SD
K22FC -- 22 -- 3ABN, KBLN translator
K47GI -- 47 -- 3ABN, KBLN translator
K02JJ -- 02 -- PBS, KSYS translator -- World TV, PBS Encore, Create
KOBI -- 05 -- NBC, KOBI -- Accuweather
KSYS -- 08 -- PBS, KSYS -- World TV, PBS Encore, Create
K04JZ -- 04 -- CBS, KTVL translator -- ???
KDVR -- 12 -- ABC, KDRV -- Duplicate in SD
K07PZ -- 07 -- NBC, KOBI translator
K04JP -- 04 -- CBS, KTVL translator
K17EZ -- 17 -- 3ABN, KBLN translator
K33GJ -- 33 -- 3ABN, KBLN translator

When you look carefully at the list, you're quite right, a UHF only antenna is all that's needed to receive the available programming. The HD7000R that I and Electron have recommended is more antenna than you need at this time. It may pay to go ahead and install an all channel antenna, hoping that unique programing would be added on a VHF channel at a future date but there's no guaranty that will happen.

A home made antenna such as the 4-bay bow-tie with no reflector should be able to receive real channels 49, 15, 44, 30, 19 and 25 when facing north and south. What do you get when you place your 4-bay bow-tie outside, high (roof top) in the clear? (connected to one digital capable tuner)

If you wish to optimize your 4-bay bow-tie, here is a reputable DIY design:
http://m4antenna.eastmasonvilleweather.com/index.html
http://m4antenna.eastmasonvilleweath...t%20layout.pdf

If you want to use a commercially built antenna, any of the 4-bay bow-tie style antennas from Antennacraft, Antennas Direct, Channel Master or Winegard can be modified by removing the reflector... usually a matter of drilling a few rivets out.
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Last edited by GroundUrMast; 14-Jun-2012 at 2:33 AM.
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Old 14-Jun-2012, 2:23 AM   #11
ADTech
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GUM is correct. There are only 6 stations in your area that need to be received: K25HS (KTVL-CBS), K15BP (KDRV-ABC), K14JB (KVMU-FOX), K44JB (KOBI-NBC) , K49HS (KSYS-PBS) and, if you want 3ABN, KBLN.

Everything else on your TVFool is either an unbuilt construction permit or a duplicate translator of stations you're already getting. You're not likely to get many (if any) of the translators from neighboring valleys. Even if you did, they'd be duplicates, so there's really no point in chasing them.

Only a UHF antenna is needed for Grant's Pass stations.

You've been basically chasing ghosts that don't exist.
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Last edited by ADTech; 14-Jun-2012 at 2:34 AM.
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Old 14-Jun-2012, 7:52 PM   #12
Electron
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ALL questions and answers about broadcast tv reception.

The HD7000R antenna is $23.99 at solidsignal.
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