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Old 2-Aug-2011, 9:14 PM   #1
phone man
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Amplify or no

Hello. I've been reading several posts here and would like input for my OTA setup. A good friend who's done this before recommended the Channel Master 4228-HD. He says try it first without an amp and see if one is needed. I'll share the tvfool report for my location with you and see what you think. My concerns are the 40 miles distance from nearly all broadcaster towers and none are Line of site. Elevation at my house is 1145 ft and 902 ft in Columbus. I have a clear shot to SSW with no tall trees or obstacles for roughly 1000'. It appears I'm good for maybe 8 or 9 channels if I'm reading this correctly. I'm thinking an amplifier would get me a few more channels since they're mostly the same direction 203 to 215 degrees but I don't want to create too strong a signal and mess up the channels coming from 35 to 40 miles. The amplifier or booster I'm considering is a Channel Master rated at 26db boost.
I have one HDTV and the coax run between it and the antenna would be no more than 50 ft. There is the possibility I might back feed the existing coax to another TV 30 ft beyond the first one.
Thanks!
Here's the report...

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...3e47e33abc7580

Last edited by phone man; 2-Aug-2011 at 9:26 PM.
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Old 3-Aug-2011, 12:31 AM   #2
GroundUrMast
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The CM4228 and similar 8-bay panel antennas should perform fairly well. I would go up a notch, to the Antennas Direct XG-91 or Winegard HD9095P.

I agree with your friend, if you can run reliably with no amplifier, don't spend the money. If a higher gain antenna can do the job without an amplifier, you're almost always better of to go with the un-amplified system. If you need an amplifier, I'd suggest the Antennas Direct CPA-19 for it's low noise and resistance to overload. I'm guessing that you have been considering the CM7777, which would likely work but will overload more easily than the CPA-19.

If you want to see WMFD, real channel 12, a second antenna such as the Winegard YA-1713 aimed at 017 would do the job well. A UVSJ would be needed to combine the two antennas before the preamp input.
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If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)

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Old 3-Aug-2011, 3:10 AM   #3
phone man
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I just discovered by clicking on each channel on the list given on my report, I can see the terrain and how it impacts the signal. I questioned whether it was even possible to receive WMFD (12) to the north with a series of tall hills immediately north of my location. The dual antenna in opposite directions was something I hadn't considered. I'll look into that. Fortunately, the view to the south where most of the broadcast towers are is much less hilly.
Thanks for your input, GroundUrMast, and yes the mast (2" pipe) is grounded. Old phone guys always pay attention to grounds!
I looked at the other antennas you mentioned. Geez they're long! I didn't realize until I looked at the specs just how big they are. The 8 array bowtie and oven rack design is pretty big too at approx 40x30 inches. The friend I mentioned is a coworker who also does satellite tv and antenna work but I wanted all the info I could get. This forum looked like a great place to start and I appreciate your help.
Thank you!
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Old 3-Aug-2011, 6:02 AM   #4
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The panel style antenna is much more compact than the Yagi antennas with the same gain. The difference between 8-bay panel vs the long boom Yagi will only be 2 or 3 dB at the most. So (obviously) it's up to you. The panel option is viable, I don't want to leave the impression that your friend had given bad advise.
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If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)

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Old 4-Aug-2011, 10:01 AM   #5
John Candle
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Tv Antennas and Reception

I suggest the Antennacraft U8000 8 bay panel antenna with a Winegard HDP269 preamp aimed at about 210 degree magnetic compass. This antenna I have recommended to others because it receives well in 2 directions , front and back. Do the coax wiring in a way that uses the least amount splitters , Every time a split takes place the signal is reduced. The worst to do with splitters is have a run of coax and then a splitter and from that splitter an other run of coax and then a splitter and from that splitter an other run of coax and then a splitter , there won't be any signal at the end. The best to do is have one splitter and run a coax out to each Tv.

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Old 4-Aug-2011, 12:59 PM   #6
phone man
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Hi John. I agree, a "home run" to each tv would be best and if I had more than two sets that's how I would do it. The splitter for the 2nd set will be placed near the base of the antenna mast, 30' from the antenna. From that point, the run to the main tv is approx 15', and the run to 2nd tv is approx 50'. Would placing the splitter at the top of the mast near the antenna provide more signal to the 2nd tv or should I consider a line amp for that location?

Would the antenna you recommended work for channel 12 coming from the opposite direction? The factory specs say 14 thru 69. That's one of the reasons the 4228HD was considered, for it's upper VHF abilities. I don't see much of a design difference between the two so maybe that's just hype from Channel Master.
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Old 4-Aug-2011, 4:31 PM   #7
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Tv Antennas and Reception

Ok very good , Yes the U8000 has extended reception ability in to the VHF high channels of 7 thru 13. Yes the antenna will receive channel 12 through the back side of the antenna. And reception of Tv channels 7 thru 69 can be improved through the back side of the antenna by turning the reflector bars in line with the bars that hold the reflector bars so the V shaped shaped reception elements can receive more signal. It is better to put the 2 way splitter inside out of the weather. The factory specs for the Channel Master Cm4228HD are not hype , it has been retuned (longer V shaped reception elements) for improved reception of VHF high channels. The older CM4482 was also a good receiver of VHF high channels. The new Channel Master antenna has more reflector elements , then the U8000 , that block reception to the rear and are not easly moved or removed. 8 bay panel antennas receive the VHF high channels because the reception elements are a little longer and more reception elements that interact for improved reception of the VHF high channels.
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Old 4-Aug-2011, 5:18 PM   #8
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Tv Antennas and Reception

Here is a question asker that had doubts about U8000 reception , http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=1924
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Old 4-Aug-2011, 6:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phone man View Post
Hi John. I agree, a "home run" to each tv would be best ....

Would the antenna you recommended work for channel 12 coming from the opposite direction? The factory specs say 14 thru 69. That's one of the reasons the 4228HD was considered, for it's upper VHF abilities. I don't see much of a design difference between the two so maybe that's just hype from Channel Master.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Candle View Post
Here is a question asker that had doubts about U8000 reception , http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=1924
The example cited has the high-VHF stations arriving from the front and about 20 dB stronger than your channel 12 which is arriving from the back... While I'm sceptical, there's no harm in trying a single antenna solution, you can add a high-VHF antenna later if you decide you need it.

The HDP-269 is a competitor for the CPA-19's business... there is often more than one right way.
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If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)

Last edited by GroundUrMast; 4-Aug-2011 at 6:05 PM.
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Old 4-Aug-2011, 6:49 PM   #10
John Candle
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Tv Antennas and Reception

If a 91XG or HD9095 were installed , the 91Xg and HD9095 are one direction antennas and will not receive channel 12 so a VHF high band antenna will be need to be installed any way. I think the U8000 one antenna solution will work. If a second antenna is needed for reception of channel 12 , a Antennas Direct C5 is made for VHF high and comes with a UVSJ - UHF-VHF Separator Joiner. .Here are places to buy Tv antennas and etc. , http://www.solidsignal.com , http://www.starkelectronic.com , http://www.amazon.com , http://www.3starinc.com
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Old 4-Aug-2011, 6:55 PM   #11
John Candle
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Tv Antennas and Reception

Here are some but not all free Tv guides , http://www.zap2it.com , http://www.television.aol.com , http://www.tv.yahoo.com , http://www.titantv.com . http://www.tvzap.com , http://www.tv.entertainment.excite.com , Here is how to aim/point antennas , [URL="http://www.k

Last edited by John Candle; 4-Aug-2011 at 7:14 PM.
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Old 5-Aug-2011, 4:37 PM   #12
John Candle
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Here is how to aim antennas , http://kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html

Last edited by John Candle; 5-Aug-2011 at 4:40 PM.
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Old 6-Aug-2011, 2:52 AM   #13
phone man
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Thanks for the links John. The one thing that stood out to me on the "how to aim an antenna" link was the parabolic UHF. I've seen those egg shaped antennas before, they're especially popular in northern Ohio for some reason, but I didn't know much about them.
The 4228HD I ordered from Tiger Direct arrived this evening, only a day and a half after I ordered it. Not bad! The coworker I mentioned earlier supplied me with enough coax and outdoor crimp on connectors to do the job. He also threw in an A/B switch! Hopefully I'll find time this weekend to get on the roof and install it.
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Old 6-Aug-2011, 5:24 AM   #14
John Candle
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Tv Antennas and Reception

I recommended the U8000 and the reasons and facts why. I also provide tons of other practical and useful information.
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