New Antenna or too much gain?

mmcculligh · 28-May-2011, 4:58 PM

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...574724372544e7

I currently have an old omnidirectional antenna, purchased years ago at Radio Shack. In the past it got spotty reception of both the closer eastern channels (Canadian - 3) and the farther western channels (Michigan - 8/10). Now that the Michigan channels have all gone digital, I purchased a new TV with a digital tuner. Hooking it up to the existing antenna resulted in no channels. A very old booster (unknown model, it was from Radio Shack) was lying around so I put it inline behind the TV and powered it up. The digital channels from Michigan came in perfectly for about 3 minutes and then everything was gone. I figured the booster died (power light would go out as soon as the TV was attached) so I purchased a Antennacraft 10G222 Pre-Amplifier. Once this was hooked up, no channels appeared. I figured the TV's tuner might have been damaged so I brought it back to Ottawa (antenna setup is at cottage) and it works fine for both analog and digital channels in Ottawa.

Now I'm wondering if I have too much gain from the booster or if the antenna should be replaced and if so with which one? A directional antenna seems perfect to pick up the digital channels from Michigan but getting the analog stations from Canada would be nice if possible.

I'm looking at getting Antennas Direct 20dB Variable Attenuator for VHF UHF HD Off-Air Reception 1296F to see if I can scale back the gain.

John Candle · 28-May-2011, 10:52 PM

Make sure that the location of the receiving antenna is correct at the cottage and post two antenna heights of 50 feet and 100 feet.

John Candle · 28-May-2011, 11:22 PM

You are making The Wrong Choices of equipment to receive the Tv stations at your location. Stop before you really do , do something bad.

ghz24 · 29-May-2011, 7:29 AM

Quote:

A very old booster (unknown model, it was from Radio Shack) was lying around so I put it inline behind the TV and powered it up

boosters make up for signal that's lost in the coax and splitters between the antenna and the tv / receiver so the booster should be as close to the antenna as possible before the losses happen. Looks like you need a vhf antenna I don't think a uhf antenna would give much return on investment.

mmcculligh · 29-May-2011, 3:15 PM

The antenna is on a ~25 foot mast.

50 ft:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...57473fa7989d0d

100 ft:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5747b43b3cd1b9

John Candle · 29-May-2011, 9:46 PM

The reception of Tv stations at your location is weak. A variable attenuator will make the stations even weaker. To attenuate means to reduce the strength. You are chasing your tail. I suggest that you STOP. I suggest that you post back here with the antenna heights at 50 feet and 100 feet. . I can help you better if you will private message me with the exact location of longitude and latitude.

John Candle · 30-May-2011, 8:37 AM

Not knowing what Canada is going to do with all digital channel assignments , I suggest covering all the posibilitys with a All Channel antenna the Channel Master CM 3679 antenna mounted on a Channel Master CM-9521A rotor. Buy at http://saveandreplay.com. . I also suggest a Ultra Low Noise Preamp from KitzTech in the USA. The model KT-100VG-Coax. http://kitztech.com

John Candle · 30-May-2011, 8:52 AM

The higher the antenna height the better for the American stations of channels 10 and 8. Start with 25 feet and see what can be received , 50 feet would be better and 75 to 100 feet would be better.

John Candle · 30-May-2011, 8:59 AM

Here is more information , http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/105462 , http://digitalhome.ca/forum , http://www.trentondistributors.com , http://www.friends.ca , http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/home-accueil.htm , http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/117022

John Candle · 30-May-2011, 9:23 AM

Here are some free tv guides , http://www.canada.com/entertainment/...ion/index.html , http://www.tvzap.com , http://tv.yahoo.com , http://tv.entertainment.excite.com , http://www.zap2it.com , http://www.television.aol.com , http://www.titantv.com. Read and understand about , REAL Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , Virtual Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , Analog Broadcast Tv Channels , http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=695 . American station digital channel 10 is CBS and FOX . American station digital channel 8 is ABC and NBC.

John Candle · 30-May-2011, 9:25 AM

You can also consider KU band Satellite Tv. http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=265

mmcculligh · 30-May-2011, 12:09 PM

The digital transition in Canada is strange, all urban areas are switching this summer (August I believe) but rural areas do not need to switch, but may if they want. My guess is that I won't see digital Canadian stations at this location for some time.

Is there a significant difference between the recommended pre-amp (Kitztech) and the one I have (Antennacraft 10G202). Since the Antennacraft is mast mounted I would have expected better performance from it.

John Candle · 30-May-2011, 6:27 PM

The Kitztech is a Ultra Low Noise , Ultra Stable , Adjustable preamp , the antennacraft is not.

mmcculligh · 30-May-2011, 8:21 PM

While a new antenna seems like a reasonable investment, I'm curious to understand why the existing setup would have worked for 3 minutes (HD station from Michigan was perfect) and then died with the unknown amplifier (likely of very poor quality). Anyone have any ideas?

Is there any chance that the AntennaCraft amplifier is overdriving the TV? I've seen other forums mention this as a possibility that can be rectified with a variable attenuator (installed at the TV, amplifier is on the mast). I'm concerned that the Kitztech could also overdrive, especially if a new antenna results in a better signal.

Will the Kitztech having variable gain behave any differently from using a variable attenuator after a fixed amplifier? I'm assuming the big difference is the noise each introduces.

John Candle · 30-May-2011, 9:30 PM

The strongest Tv station with antenna at 25 feet at your location is CICI-TV 3 at 35.3 NM(dB) , 35.5 is in the middle range of signal strength. Over loaded amplifiers begin to happen when the signal strength is in the 60's and higher. WWUP-TV 10 is very weak at -5.5 NM(dB) and WGTQ-DT 8 is extremely weak at -24.7 NM(dB). All amplifiers generate noise , the antennacraft amplifier will have 3.5 dB noise and the kitztech is 1 dB or less. Low noise is important when dealing with weak signals. Noise is interference and interference reduces the reception of a clean signal. I am doing my best to provide information that is correct , there are other ways to get the Tv stations like using a two antenna system , one pointed at the Canada stations and one pointed at the USA stations. It is extremely likely that when when the Canada transmitters are upgraded to digital that the upgrade will be to the UHF channels. The VHF low band channels of 2 thru 6 are not good for transmission and reception of digital tv signals. The point here is that , get one antenna to cover all the posibiltys.

John Candle · 30-May-2011, 9:36 PM

You can also use the 'KT-200-coax' amplifier if you like. And as a matter of fact , at this point in time I recommend the 'KT-200-coax' amplifier. The reception of tv and the equipment that you use is your choice. I make my suggestions based on facts not opinions and what Joe told Mary.

John Candle · 30-May-2011, 9:44 PM

The omni directional antenna likely has a amplifier in it and then you added an other amplifier and the two amplifiers did not like each other.

GroundUrMast · 30-May-2011, 9:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmcculligh

I currently have an old omnidirectional antenna...
...Now I'm wondering if I have too much gain from the booster...

Based on the weak signal levels at your location, this would not be my choice of antenna type. JC has suggested an appropriate deep fringe antenna, another option (similar in performance) would be the Winegard HD8200U.

JC has also correctly pointed out the need to mount your antenna as high as safety and budget allow.

I have checked for FM station interference, there does not appear to be much of any nearby FM signals, certainly none that would pose an overload risk.

Let me assure you... no, you do not have too much gain, an attenuator will reduce an already weak signal. You need to receive more signal not less. That starts with the correct antenna installed at an elevation where signal exists. Then amplify the signal enough to overcome the losses and noise in your cabling and TV tuner.

mmcculligh · 31-May-2011, 1:28 PM

I'm going to start with the Channel Master CM 3679 and see what kind of results I get.

How important is the coax in this kind of setup? The existing wires are likely 20 years old and have been subject to all kinds of weather over that time. I'm guessing I should replace it all at the same time.

GroundUrMast · 31-May-2011, 4:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmcculligh

I'm going to start with the Channel Master CM 3679 and see what kind of results I get.

How important is the coax in this kind of setup? The existing wires are likely 20 years old and have been subject to all kinds of weather over that time. I'm guessing I should replace it all at the same time.

You have enjoyed the best years that coax had to offer... RG-6 is the cable to choose. The extra shield on RG-6 Quad is needed only for satellite applications, no need for the extra expense.

If you have the budget, the CM-3671 would not be overkill, IMO.