Getting a few more channels

[bighop]

Hello, this is my first post..

I have a set up that is working great for me, but I'm trying to get at least one more channel and I'm not having any luck.

I live in Sterling Hts Michigan, and I have an attic antena. This goes off a powered splinter to 2 tvs' and one to my HD home run. I use my iMac and eye tv to record programs and Apple TV and plex to play them back.

Again, it's working but I can't seem to get CBC, channel 9.1 in Windsor. It's about 30 miles away. I currently am getting 44 channels with my antenna from antenna direct, this also has a vhf with it.

I don't know if I should add an amp, another antenna, or am I just out of luck.. Also, anyone else in this area? If so, how many channels are you getting?

[shoman94]

We need info.
Equipment, length of cable runs, splitters and tvfool report with height included.

[bighop]

I have the following:
1. DB4-PRO Grade Signature Series Bowtie HDTV Antenna, with a vhf attachment.
2. Handel Master CM3414 4-port powered splitter.

I'm in a ranch, so it's less tha. 50 ft of cable from the antenna to the powered splitter in the basement and maybe 15ft back to each tv.

As for the report I have to make that, I'm on my iPad, have to move to my desk top.

[bighop]

Here is my signal report from TV Fool. I read on line about placing my VHF antenna on a different mount and pointing it a different direction, not sure if that will do it, or would an amp help?

[rabbit73]

Thank you for the tvfool report. I have turned it into an active link so that we can click on a callsign in the report to see the transmitter terrain profile if necessary.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...513404e68f4b75

I read on line about placing my VHF antenna on a different mount and pointing it a different direction,

That might help. CBC, channel 9.1, at about 181 degrees magnetic is in a different direction than most of your other channels at 220 degrees magnetic. Mount the VHF dipole on the same mast above the DB4e and orient it broadside (perpendicular) to the CBC signal.
https://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_..._201402062.pdf



The VHF dipole is bi-directional, so either side can be used. Since it is a dipole it only has 0 dB gain, and CBC is much weaker than your other channels. If changing the aim of the dipole doesn't bring in CBC better you will need to replace it with a VHF-High antenna with more gain like the MCM 30-2475 or 2476 and combine it with the DB4e with a UVSJ UHF/VHF combiner.

The MCM antennas are inexpensive, have poor assembly instructions, but work OK.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produc...-2475-/30-2475
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produc...-2476-/30-2476

would an amp help?

Your signals are very strong. If the antenna was outside, a preamp would probably be overloaded. The signal loss with the antenna in the attic is difficult to predict. Try the VHF antenna with more gain first.

The signal monitor on the HDHR should help you. You might need to try different locations in the attic to find a hot spot for the signal. Hopefully, there are no trees or other buildings in the signal path.

It's interesting that you bought the DB4-PRO Grade Signature Series Bowtie HDTV Antenna. It is the stainless steel version of the DB4e that is needed when mounted outside in costal areas to resist corrosion.

You have some strong local FM signals that might interfere with the reception of CBC; an FM filter might be needed.
http://www.fmfool.com/modeling/tmp/a...7/Radar-FM.png

[bighop]

Thank you for this info, its a big help.

I bought that antenna after a phone call to Antenna Direct. I told them I was putting it in my attic, and thats what they recommended.

I have a combiner on the antenna, because of the VHF accessory antenna I bought from Antenna direct.

There is no room to place a VHF above the UHF antenna, can I place it on a separate mast near the UFH antenna?

Also, this sounds really dumb, I used my iPhone's compass to set the direction. I set the UHF to about 220 degrees. What do you mean by setting to true north?

Is the signal straight tester something expensive?

Thanks again for the info.

[ADTech]

can I place it on a separate mast near the UFH antenna?

My suggestion is always to put it where it works by whatever reasonable means are available to you.

Attic locations are very susceptible to localized electrical interference from local electrical and electronic devices that interferes primarily with VHF reception. Be patient in relocating the VHF element and try multiple locations as needed.

[rabbit73]

There is no room to place a VHF above the UHF antenna, can I place it on a separate mast near the UFH antenna?

I think that would work, as long as the antennas are side-by-side instead of one in front of the other.

I have a combiner on the antenna, because of the VHF accessory antenna I bought from Antenna direct.

There are 3 versions of combining that they have used for the VHF kit. ADTech can help you with that if he sees this.

Also, this sounds really dumb, I used my iPhone's compass to set the direction. I set the UHF to about 220 degrees. What do you mean by setting to true north?

That wasn't dumb to try to use the iPhone compass, but the compass in some smart phones isn't very accurate; better to use a regular pocket compass.

If you look at your tvfool report you will see two columns for antenna azimuth, true and magnetic. If you use a compass to aim the antenna, use the magnetic number and that will be the same as the true north reading as shown by the green signal lines on the tvfool interactive map. The difference between the two numbers is called the magnetic declination, and it varies according to location.



I picked a house in your area as an example. If it happens to be your house, it is a coincidence. You can use the green line and a landmark for aim. You can do your own green lines here by moving the cursor to the antenna location:
http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?opti...pper&Itemid=90

Is the signal straight tester something expensive?

Some TVs have a signal strength indicator in the menu that will help you find the antenna location for the strongest CBC signal. After some testing, you will find out how weak a signal can be on that scale and still be received.

Your SiliconDust HDHR has a signal monitor feature that gives signal strength, signal quality (SNR), and symbol quality (lack of errors).

[bighop]

Very interesting.

I took all the true magnetic readings that were with in range and placed the values on a spreadsheet. Then I averaged the numbers. That's how I got the 220 number.

I'm going to start by adjusting my numbers to true north, then add second post, and mounting the vhf to that and see where I'm at.

[shoman94]

I don't see any reason that you wouldn't get that channel with the dipole but there are exceptions that always get in our way. I have 3 VHF station I get with my dipole. Two of them have no where near as strong a signal as yours but the difference is that I'm on the roof and there are some large trees in my path.
WMTW-DT 8 (8.1) ABC 26.5 miles 1Edge 44.6NM(db)
WENH-TV 11 (11.1) PBS 44.6 miles 2Edge 12.9NM(db)
WCBB-DT 10 (10.1) PBS 48.9 miles 2Edge -1.2NM(db)

I find it odd as well that Antennas Direct would recommend a stainless steal antenna for someone that planned on putting it in the attic. I believe its 2+ times the price of the normal DB4e.

I agree that a preamp may be to strong.... especially on the roof.

[bighop]

Well and there you have it... 2+, I didn't understand that when I made the purchase. It's been working great, just want to get a few more channels. I'm at 44 now, don't know if that is normal for this area.

I know there is a lot of pros and cons for putting antennas in an attic. I really didn't want to mount anything to the roof, but I always have that option with this antenna.

Now tonight we are getting hit with winds and storms in Michigan, would the antenna being outside have issues with reception? Just wondering.

Appreciate the help, I'm making some adjustments over the next few days and we will see where we are.

[tclearinghouse]

I live in eastern NC and we had some good winds and heavy rain last night and my reception was in and out. Channels I normally receive with zero issue were acting up so storms do play a part. I have a clearstream 2V mounted to the side of my home for reference.

As a side note I live near railroad tracks and when a train rolls by (usually once or twice a day) my signal definitely degrades some. I see artifacts on screen and as soon as the train passes, *poof* back to normal. So things you would think aren't necessarily big deals do truly affect signal strength.

[ADTech]

Reception issues due to storms usually fall into two categories: 1) Lightning-induced impulse noise, usually on VHF for up to moderate or even long distances and 2) Tree-induced multipath caused by the signal getting shredded when going through moving trees.

As for the train, two very similar causes: 1) Electrical noise from the diesel-electric generators and the electrical drive motors, primarily on VHF and while the engine(s) are closest and 2) multi-path caused by signal reflections and blockages from the moving train.

So things you would think aren't necessarily big deals do truly affect signal strength.

Most often, it's not signal strength that's being affected, it's the quality of the signal that gets degraded.

[bighop]

I pointed my antenna about 173 degrees, and I was able to get channel 9.1 and TVO for kids, but lost some other channels. Also, my signal strength was low on my other channels. (70's)

Forgot to mention this.... there was an older antenna up in the attic when we moved in. Mounted to a piece of PVC. I took it down when I put my antenna up.

I pointed the old antenna in the 173 direction, disconnected my VHF antenna from the combiner and connected the older antenna

I now have channel 9.1. and most of my other channels. I lost about 6... but, to be honest, I never watch those channels... 3 are religion and 3 are a Detroit music station. so Im at 38 strong channels.

I rechecked my signal strength and Im in the high 80's for all my channels. So we are getting there... that is for sure.

[shoman94]

The only antenna that should have been aimed at 173 was the vhf dipole. This would only be for channel 7 (fox) and 9 (cbc). The db4e would be aimed differently based on your desires.

Also remember quality is better than signal strength.

[bighop]

Yes, I just did it as a test and it worked. Getting 89 percent on some channels, so I'm happy

[shoman94]

Good to hear!