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Old 31-Jan-2014, 3:06 AM   #1
markandegla
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Long range antenna

I have a home-made coat hanger antenna(DB4-style) next to my living room TV facing southwest and receive:

KGBT
KVEO
KRGV
KMBH
KNVO
KTFV(which is now digital)
KLUJ
KFXV(also now digital)
XHAB(digital Matamoros, MX)
XERV(digital Reynosa, MX)

I would like to receive KTLM and KAZH and some from just across the border in Reynosa or Matomoros as they transition to digital. I am looking for an indoor antenna for a northeast corner bedroom. I do have a mast with a KU band dish above my single story roofline where I could add an outdoor antenna for short range or better yet, try to pull in a group of 2edge at 257 and 154.1m originating from Monterrey, MX.
I really am ideally located for the stations that I receive(most will come in with a paper-clip). Thank you for looking at http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b9421898e2e4e and sharing your suggestions.

Last edited by markandegla; 1-Feb-2014 at 11:39 PM.
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Old 31-Jan-2014, 9:03 PM   #2
teleview
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Above the Peak of the Roof install a , www.antennacraft.net , HBU11K antenna aimed at about , 129 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html

Use a Real and Actual magnetic compass to aim antenna.

Recommend avoid using a antenna system amplifier because of the Very Strong local Tv transmissions.

Those Strong local transmissions can overload a signal amplifier and be the cause of bad reception of some channels.

As is with All reception situations , avoid obstructions to reception in the directions of reception.

Avoiding obstructions is important if you will like to receive the Weak Signal Strength Tv stations.

Test reception with only 1 Tv connected , No splitters.

Digital Tv tuners can develop -Digital Glitches - that are not cleared out with simple channel scans.

To clear tuner do Double Rescan.

www.wchstv.com/DoubleReScanAlert.pdf

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Most Digital Tv's have a , Signal Strength Meter , and some Digital Tv's also have a , Signal Quality Meter.

Signal Quality is Important.

Last edited by teleview; 6-Feb-2014 at 2:30 PM. Reason: Clarify information and typos.
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Old 2-Feb-2014, 5:40 AM   #3
StephanieS
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Hi Mark,

I had written out a bunch of thoughts in regards to your situation. None of them seemed to feel they were right.

The overriding problem you have in your plot is KGBT real channel (RF) 31. It is laying an exceptionally strong signal on you to the point that any outdoor antenna may be overloaded from it.

Overload happens to TV tuners when signals are so strong it makes them essentially "go blind." This would be like looking at an exceptionally bright light and being unable to see any detail. We can look away to see detail again. A TV tuner can't so often times reception either degrades or disappears completely.

I have never been in a situation where I've had exceptionally strong signals less than a half mile away while desiring to receive weaker signals. I could suggest the gear to get the weaker signal and you under normal circumstances would likely be successful. However, KGBT and your exceptionally strong locals make any higher gain or directional antenna likely a non-option. For the Mexican broadcasts, you need an antenna on par with a DB8, DB8e or channel master 4228.

I can't in good consciousness recommend them here though. Not for the design, but that there is too much other signal in the air for them.

No matter what kind of setup I envision, it has to be outdoors and the overwhelming strength of your locals I fear will undercut your efforts.

You'd have to be able to isolate the antenna and in effect, shield it from the locals. It wouldn't be just a "point and connect" type of installation. It'd be far more complicated.

This is where I punt this question to others who have tackled this type of situation before. I can't recommend anyway forward here that I feel confident in for the weaker stations.

Edit: I am not surprised you receive stations with a paperclip. If KGBT were an AM station in the 1950s, your cavity fillings may have been playing music!

Last edited by StephanieS; 2-Feb-2014 at 5:45 AM.
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Old 2-Feb-2014, 2:43 PM   #4
markandegla
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Thank you so much for your time and your assessment. I will let go of the DX notion and focus on the stations close to my house. I've brought in KTLM-DT in my living room on my homemade by drawing a curtain and aiming more to the west. It seems that rabbitears.info is more consistent with my area's(Harlingen, TX) and lists some channels that I receive that are not in my report. Will an omnidirectional outdoor solve KTLM-DT and KAZH? If not, what is my best indoor choice. My homemade is a bit obtrusive and not something that I would prefer hanging next to every TV. Again, thank you for your time and knowledge.
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Old 2-Feb-2014, 5:14 PM   #5
stvcmty
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Two ideas come to mind to deal with the very strong signal on RF31. The first is to get an antenna with a strong null and make sure KGBT is in the null.

The second is a cavity filter to notch out RF31. For example a tripple cavity filter to notch out a UHF station would be $375 from Microwave Filter Co., Inc.

(Along that lines, you could try a 1/4 wave stub. An open 1/4 wave stub at RF31 would act like a short to the overloading signal, but it would probably take out channels on either side to a varrying degree depending on how far a station was from RF31.)
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Old 2-Feb-2014, 8:38 PM   #6
markandegla
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Thank you so much for your time and responses. I tried to reply to the first response earlier but I must not have submitted it. At any rate, I shall try for the closer stations and not the long range ones. I'm thinking of an omnidirectional outdoor on my mast or an indoor that will out-perform my current DIY coat hanger. Thanks again.
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Old 3-Feb-2014, 6:37 AM   #7
StephanieS
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Hi Mark,

Wish I could've been a bearer of better news.

Teleview suggests the Antennacraft HBU11K, for locals I might have suggested that antenna too. Instead of outdoors which would be normal, I would, and this is an uncommon suggestion for me - if you have an attic I would test mount it in there. My thinking here is that I want to knock down KGBT's signal strength using the attic (if you have one) to attenuate the signal for RF 31, that might be a good thing.

Do you have trees on your property? Or can you literally see the broadcast tower(s) from your roof?

Regards.
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Old 3-Feb-2014, 4:39 PM   #8
markandegla
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Yes, I do have an attic space and it will be easy to try there and outside. I have a tree at immediate southeast corner of house, but I can aim to one side of it. RF31's tower is quite visible. I don't believe that it would quite reach my house if it were to fall towards it, though. After pulling up the interactive map and noting the proximity of the various towers, I'm thinking of buying hats of the tin foil variety.
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Old 3-Feb-2014, 4:42 PM   #9
teleview
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--->For reception of those Tv stations you will like to receive.<---

------->It is Important <-->to avoid obstructions in the directions of reception.<------

Obstructions such as and not limited to , attic , roof , buildings including your own , attic , roof and building and trees , cause Multi-Path reflections Tv signals bouncing all around.

Your reception location has some strong signal strength Tv signals and strong signal strength Tv signals bouncing all around is not good for reception.

Digital tuners can correct multi-path to a certain point , and then the multi-path is Too Much multi-path and Too Much strong signal strength multi-path.

The Digital tuner is overloaded with multi-path and this will be the cause of bad reception of some channels.

It is important to avoid obstructions to reception such as and not limited to , attics , buildings including your own building , trees and tree leaves , plants and plant leaves and other obstructions.

Install the HBU11 at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception including your own roof and building in the directions of reception.

Last edited by teleview; 6-Feb-2014 at 3:01 PM. Reason: Clarify information and typos.
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Old 5-Feb-2014, 4:27 PM   #10
markandegla
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I've ordered the HBU11 and, if there is any interest, I will post back about my findings. Again, thanks for everyone's suggestions.
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Old 5-Feb-2014, 8:05 PM   #11
teleview
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I am interested in reception reports.

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To Prove reception , connect a New Continues length of coax to the antenna and run the New Continues length of coax through a open door or window , direct to 1 Tv.

Digital Tuners can develop - Digital Glitches - that are not cleared out with simple channel scans.

To clear tuner , do Double Rescan.

www.wchstv.com/DoubleReScanAlert.pdf

Last edited by teleview; 6-Feb-2014 at 3:17 PM. Reason: Clarify information and typos.
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Old 9-Mar-2014, 10:03 PM   #12
markandegla
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I mounted the HBU11 on a mast at ~18' above ground(~5' above roof peak). I made scans in several directions and found the most channels when looking toward 256.0(Reynosa, MX}. I have a large tree obstructing 129 degree magnetic compass direction from my mast location.

How, teleview, do you determine a direction at which to aim? Reynosa and Matamoros are almost exactly equidistant from my location and most towers are either right on top of me or to the west of me.

Aiming at 256.0, I scan in Digital's: 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 12, 17, 21, 23, 32, 38, 40, 40, 44, 48, and 67. Many of which include subchannels. I am extremely pleased with these results.

I've told a friend who lives ~10 miles east of me and he wants to unbundle his cable and get OTA if he can expect similar results. I plan to open a new thread on his behalf.

Thank you to everyone for all your time and input.
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Old 10-Mar-2014, 4:12 PM   #13
teleview
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Subject: Antenna aiming.

Directional antennas such as and not limited to the HBU11/k antenna.

Receive the best in the forward direction.

A little less at front angles to the antenna.

Less at back angles to the antenna.

Less at the back of the antenna.

And receive the least amount of signal directly on the sides of the antenna.

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Look at the Tvfool radar map for the Current Plus Pending Applications Included Tv Stations.

Your reception location is in the center of the circular radar map.

The Tv stations are all around.

Most of the Tv stations are Strong Signal Strength in the Green reception zone as shown on the circular radar plot and in the tvfool channel list.

Keeping in mind , the way directional antennas receive as described.

On the radar map I see a group of Tv stations to the South East that are not as strong of signal strength as the most of the other Tv stations of the other directions and appear to be Tv Networks that are not received in other directions.

So I recommended aim the antenna at the weaker Tv stations to the South East.

Aiming a directional antenna is a Balance Type of Situation to receive strong signal strength Tv stations and weak signal strength Tv stations.

And the Aim of the antenna Also takes in to account the Tv stations you will like to receive because the Tv stations have Networks that are of interest to you.
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Old 11-Mar-2014, 7:37 AM   #14
markandegla
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Perfect. I'll open another thread for my friend.
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