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Old 14-Jan-2014, 6:20 PM   #1
nightshark
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Reception East Texas

Hi All,
We recently moved to a new 1 story house and am having some reception issues.

I have the Antennas Direct DB4e and just had it plugged in leaning against the house outside. Reception was okay. I was surprised we got anything with all the pine trees!

I finally got around to mounting it on the roof at about 22ft last weekend. Now all of the stations that were coming in fine are having issues. It is aimed according to this report:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b94d7b95d11af

I am just running this to our living room with no amp.

Can someone provide some insight to my problem?
Thanks!

Last edited by GroundUrMast; 19-Jan-2014 at 12:46 AM. Reason: repaired TVFR link
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Old 14-Jan-2014, 6:32 PM   #2
ADTech
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Don't assume that, what looks like the perfect site to you, will actually be suitable for the signals, especially when dealing with 2-edge signals.

Look for a mounting location that offers the clearest available line of site back towards the horizon in the direction of the broadcast towers. If that's ground level rather than 22 feet above the ground with the antenna up in the trees, then so be it.

Explore multiple locations and pick the one that works best before drilling any holes.
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Old 14-Jan-2014, 7:20 PM   #3
nightshark
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I'm using existing lines that are already run outside from where the sat dish was. I was hoping to stay in the same spot.
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Old 14-Jan-2014, 9:32 PM   #4
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The Tvfool radar plot and channel list report is not working.
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Old 14-Jan-2014, 10:25 PM   #5
ADTech
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Hoping and knowing are two quite different things...

Did you verify that there were no satellite splitters or multi-switches remaining in the satellite coaxial lines?

Keep in mind that the satellite signals come from a point up in outer space while the local stations come from some point on the horizon.

Pick a location that offers that "best" signal path view and go there first with the antenna. Make sure the front (bowties) of the antenna is facing towards those stations' towers.
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Old 14-Jan-2014, 11:00 PM   #6
nightshark
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I understand that sir. It's the same cable line as when it was on the ground. It just really confuses me the plot says to aim it a certain direction and I get better reception pointed differently. I hope you aren't this snarky to your other customers.
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Old 15-Jan-2014, 8:22 AM   #7
analogqueen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightshark View Post
I understand that sir. It's the same cable line as when it was on the ground. It just really confuses me the plot says to aim it a certain direction and I get better reception pointed differently. I hope you aren't this snarky to your other customers.

You're not a "customer" this is a forum. You're not buying any advice. it's all free here. I'm sorry you expected someone to butter your advice for you- I personally didn't see any snark myself in any of the answers. In fact, the answers you received were by someone who took time out to actually think about your question and respond with a suitable fix!

You said since you elevated your antx 22' AAG, your signal is worse. Well then, lower it so the signal hits the reflector as it travels and bends its way to your location. When I myself receive a signal from 2 edge, I actually need to face the reflector (I have the same antenna as you do) more toward the ground to "catch" that 2 edge. So, the only fix I can recommend is to go up to your antenna and do what everyone does: fiddle with it. In fact you may be better off having it just 10' AAG (that's Above Average Ground) level where you had it before, where you say you actually received the signals you wanted. There is no tricks to it.
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Old 15-Jan-2014, 11:22 AM   #8
ADTech
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I'm not snarky, I'm "matter of fact". I don't sugar coat instructions and advice, especially when it's being avoided.

If the signals are being received from a direction other than expected, tht usually means that the direct signal path is blocked and that the off-axis signals are getting to the antenna via an indirect method of propagation, either by reflections or by diffraction. Usually such propagation paths lead to multi-path and less reliable reception.

Keep searching for a "sweet" spot. Use the tips I provided earlier to scout out locations that are good prospects, then test those locations to see if they work out.
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Old 15-Jan-2014, 1:14 PM   #9
tomfoolery
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When I was searching the attic for a good antenna location, I used an old converter box and small CRT TV that I brought up with me, which saved a lot of time climbing the attic stairs and walking back and forth to the far opposite end of the house.

Once I found a location that gave a clean signal on all channels, I mounted it to the trusses, then used the signal meter on the big TV (on the other end of 100 ft of RG-6) to fine tune a little. But having a signal meter close by saved a ton of time and aggravation.

Just a suggestion.
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Old 15-Jan-2014, 1:30 PM   #10
nightshark
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My apologies. I appreciate all of the tips.

Does 2 edge mean the signal is deflected more than once?
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Old 15-Jan-2014, 3:21 PM   #11
ADTech
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Sort of.

Diffraction refers to the process by which radio waves "bend" as they pass over physical objects, in this case, terrain. The most commonly seen example that demonstrates this effect is to watch a wave on a lake as it passes the edge of a solid object, for example, a seawall. The area behind the seawall will exhibit some of the wave action but those waves will be heading in a different direction than they originally traveled. http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/siting.html shows an illustration that will also show the effect of this bending of radio waves.

In the TVFool analysis, a 1-edge path indicates that there is one terrain obstacle that the signal must bend over. A 2-edge path indicates that there are two identified terrain obstacles which effectively means the signal is bent a 2nd time after it has already been bent previously.

Because of this diffraction effect, signals will be 1) far weaker and 2) scattered (layered) than they otherwise would have been if there had been a line-of sight signal path. That usually means that a greater measure of patience and perseverance is signal hunting is needed and that avoidable mistakes be avoided.

Best of luck!
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Old 15-Jan-2014, 8:48 PM   #12
analogqueen
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yep that's right

Even though the tvfool tells you to point your antenna in one direction, it's not wrong advice when your antenna catches it from another one. Mine faces North for a signal that comes from directly south of me! Go figure- actually, it is a 2 edge signal that bounces off a huge building beside of me. Think of those antenna signals as a rubber ball made of light beams that can bounce off of buildings, hills, and sometimes helicopter blades (that's multipath, and answers many questions on this site as to why does my signal pixellate when a copter goes by)

yes, aim your antenna wherever you can catch that signal. TV fool was not wrong, it just posts best possible angle for you but won't take into account every "little thing".
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Old 18-Jan-2014, 1:48 PM   #13
nightshark
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Would their Clear stream 4 work any better for me? I have the db4e now...
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Old 18-Jan-2014, 11:00 PM   #14
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No, it would not.
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Old 19-Jan-2014, 1:04 AM   #15
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Given that your TV Fool report is flagged: "WARNING: Address was only resolved to street level and might not be that close to your actual location. For more accurate results, try entering a specific address or coordinates.", it's uncertain if the data actually reflects the conditions at your location. In some locations, that can produce extreme errors in the predictions.

When generating a TV Fool report, my preferred method is to open the Interactive TV Maps tool. Leave the 'input method' set to the default, 'address'. Then, enter only the Postal Code, and then click the 'Map This' button.

At this point you should have a map displayed, with a movable cursor located at the center of the Postal Code that was entered. Use your mouse to drag the cursor to the exact location you're interested in. In the upper right corner of the map you can select view types, I find it helpful to use both.

At the bottom of the map, enter the antenna height. Please use the highest value that you can safely consider installing. If you aren't sure, then use 25'. FWIW, You can also find the LAT/LON coordinates of the cursor (in decimal form, not deg/min/sec).

Once the cursor location and the antenna height are set correctly, click on the 'Make Radar Plot' button located at the upper right corner of the map. The TV Fool report opens in a new tab or window. You can then copy the URL from the address bar of your browser, for posting to a thread.

I hope this helps, I just want to be sure we give you advise based on the actual conditions at your location.
As an aside, I have a DB4e and am quite satisfied that it's the best available 4-bay panel design currently available to the consumer market. The CS4 would not be a big step down in performance, but it would not be a step up either. I also contend with trees, my best advice is, 'avoid them if possible'. If you can't get over or around them, then try getting under them.

Please, be open to the sound advise ADTech has offered you thus far.
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If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)

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