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Old 3-Aug-2013, 11:33 PM   #1
davidlukewilcox
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Need Help

Hi,

I need help finding what TV antenna I should be looking at. Here is my tvfool: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...46ae5a34db0965

The good: I only want to get the channels north west. I don't care about anything else. So, a very directional antenna could be very appropriate.

The bad: I have a big hill in front of those stations. The signal seems like it could be very weak.

My HOA has a convenant against rooftop antennas. Although I know that covenants like that are illegal, I would like to keep my nose clean.

I'd like an attic installation as I don't want to deal with mounting an antenna on my roof. However, I'm willing to mount antenna on my roof.

I have read good things about the RCA ANT751R. Should I be looking at that one?

Thanks!
David
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Old 4-Aug-2013, 5:36 AM   #2
GroundUrMast
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The RCS ANT-751 has a good reputation in areas with strong signals and where you have real channels 7 through 51 available. Though RCA does not publish gain specs for it, I would estimate it to have 3 to 5 dB of gain in the CH-7 to CH-51 range. That's not bad for its size, but you need all the gain you can get... Especially if you're going to try reception from in an attic.

I see no VHF stations on your TVFR until you get down to KUTF, real CH-12. I would strongly suggest you consider the higher performance UHF antennas.

Consider the Antennas Direct 91XG or DB8e, Winegard HD9095P or Channel Master CM-4228HD.

My preference leans toward the 91XG based on personal experience with it and it's unique feature that allows for tipping it up slightly in cases like yours where you need to aim at the top of a ridge where the signal is going to be diffracting over.

Feel free to try this from an attic... I don't expect you to do well though. Your conditions call for a high performance antenna mounted outside, high & clear of obstructions.

If you are going to run more than one TV or more than 50' of cable, consider a preamp such as the Winegard HDP-269 or Antennacraft 10G201.
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If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)
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Old 4-Aug-2013, 6:36 AM   #3
davidlukewilcox
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Thanks for the reply. I only plan on having one TV connected. I'll look at those antennas. Do you think I'll have success if I go with one of those antennas that you posted?
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Old 4-Aug-2013, 6:37 AM   #4
Stereocraig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidlukewilcox View Post



My HOA has a convenant against rooftop antennas. Although I know that covenants like that are illegal, I would like to keep my nose clean.
Somewhere along the line, we've taken a serious turn for the worst, when law abiding citizens are made to feel guilty, for engaging in perfectly legal activities.

You're not the one that should be worrying about a clean nose, they are.

Last edited by Stereocraig; 4-Aug-2013 at 6:38 AM. Reason: cleanup
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Old 4-Aug-2013, 7:23 AM   #5
GroundUrMast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidlukewilcox View Post
Thanks for the reply. I only plan on having one TV connected. I'll look at those antennas. Do you think I'll have success if I go with one of those antennas that you posted?
Its possible some signals may not be 100%. That wouldn't stop me from going after all I could get. If we were neighbors, you would expect to see a 91XG perched on my roof...
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If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)
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Old 4-Aug-2013, 7:36 AM   #6
davidlukewilcox
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Thanks. I appreciate your insight. I'll give it a shot.
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Old 4-Aug-2013, 3:06 PM   #7
davidlukewilcox
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Thanks so much for your help so far. I think I have a couple more questions. I wasn't aware of UHF vs VHF. Thanks for pointing that out and suggesting antennas that are only good at what I need and don't try to do what I don't need. The XG91 looks like a great pick.

I'm thinking about this roof mount: http://www.amazon.com/Winegard-DS-20...=antenna+mount

Will this fit the XG91? Will I need to get a separate pole so I can push the XG91 up 12 feet above the roofline? How can I know what pole will fit both of these?

As well, the connector on the side of my house for coaxial cable where comcast or dish are supposed to hook in is on the bottom. It would take probably 100 feet of cable to run down to that. That then runs upstairs across the house to my laundry room (where I can connect the entire house together in different ways). That would then have to run all the way back downstairs to my living room for the TV. I'm worried about all this coaxial cable and the loss there. If what you're saying is true, then I need all the gain I can get. Would I be wiser to just drill a hole directly from the antenna to the attic and then hook that up to my laundry room directly without going through the outside connector? Is RG11 cable super important here? How do I connect RG11 cable to the current RG6 in my house? It doesn't seem like they're compatible.

Thanks again.
David
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Old 4-Aug-2013, 3:29 PM   #8
teleview
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Here is the Federal Antenna Law that says Yes you can install a Broadcast Tv Antenna of Any Size above the roof so as to have Reliable Reception.

http://www.fcc.gov/guides/over-air-r...n-devices-rule.
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The Tv reception is Very Weak Signal Strength at your location.

The current receivable channels at your location are all UHF channels , 14 thru 51.

Above the Peak of The Roof in such a manner that the roof and house are not impeding and blocking reception to the North West.

Recommend install a , Channel Master CM4228HD UHF antenna , aimed at about 309 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

______________

Install Winegard HDP-269 preamp.

______________

The Winegard DS3000 , J pole type antenna mount is a good mount for the CM4228HD antenna.

______________

For 1 Tv connected use No splitter.

______________

Here are some places to buy antennas and etc. .

http://www.winegarddirect.com.

http://www.amazon.com.

http://www.winegarddirect.com.

____________________________________

Last edited by teleview; 4-Aug-2013 at 9:10 PM. Reason: Clarify information and typos.
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Old 4-Aug-2013, 5:19 PM   #9
davidlukewilcox
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Hi,

I have one more question. I've been playing around with the different settings on the tvfool report. One thing I did was play around with different heights for my antenna. It seems like moving my antenna up from 0 to 50 feet high actually LOSES noise measure. I'm wondering if putting my antenna up higher is actually a bad idea. Why would tvfool have less noise measure for a higher antenna in the same location? What should I do about this?
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Old 4-Aug-2013, 5:32 PM   #10
doug33taylor
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Kinda new to all of this stuff but that is one real purty tvfool report right there and yes I am jealous. LOL!!!
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Old 14-Aug-2013, 7:42 PM   #11
davidlukewilcox
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Follow-up

Hi,

I got the 91xg and mounted it on a shovel outside (so, not roof-mounted yet) so that I could test out what I thought I could get. I stuck the shovel in the ground in what I thought was the direction of the emitter and didn't move it. I tilted it slightly upwards at the peak of the hill I'm trying to get reception over.

Everything comes in crystal clear even without a pre-amp. Well, everything except KUPX (real channel 29, virtual 16.1). I cannot get any reception for that channel. I hooked up a pre-amp and still don't get anything! It's almost as if this channel isn't broadcasting or something.

I'd really like this channel and am wondering what I should do to get it. Tvfool says I should be able to get it. What's my problem? Any advise?
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Old 14-Aug-2013, 8:00 PM   #12
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If you haven't mounted the antenna above roof height yet, that's the next step. Also, be open to the idea that you may need to try moving the antenna laterally. There can be 'cold' and 'hot' spots... You may need to try a few locations.
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If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)
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Old 14-Aug-2013, 8:10 PM   #13
davidlukewilcox
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I find it interesting that I get everything except for one channel crystal clear... Could it be possible that tvfool has an out-of-date database and that KUPX is not really broadcasting? Is there a good way to find that out?
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Old 14-Aug-2013, 8:48 PM   #14
teleview
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Digital tuners can develop - Digital Glitches - that are not cleared out with simple channel scans.

Do Double Rescan.

Disconnect coax from Tv.

Scan for channels.

Disconnect Tv from power.

Wait a minute or so.

Reconnect Tv to power.

Reconnect coax to Tv.

Scan for channels.

http://www.wchstv.com/DoubleReScanAlert.pdf.

___

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KUPX-TV.

Call the Tv station , information from the engineering department.

Last edited by teleview; 24-Aug-2013 at 9:50 PM. Reason: Clarify information and typos.
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Old 14-Aug-2013, 9:42 PM   #15
Stereocraig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teleview View Post
Digital tuners can develop - Digital Glitches - that are not cleared out with simple channel scans.
Boy, I'll say.

For whatever reason, I will lose channels randomly, even if it's something I watch every day.
They even disappear form the list in the channel menu.
It's never the same ones, either.

I think they're still working out the bugs in OTA, just like w/ certain software.
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Old 24-Aug-2013, 4:40 AM   #16
davidlukewilcox
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Outdoor Installation Issues

Hi,

I have a few questions about outdoor installation. I'm not sure if this is important, but here is my TVR: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...46ae15510436d1.

First, I'm mounting a 91XG outside. My house is probably about 18-20' high at the lowest point where the eave comes down and about 27-30' high at the highest point on the eave. I'm going to borrow a 25' ladder from a coworker in a few weeks to mount my antenna.

I tested out the antenna outside and got pretty good reception mounting it on a shovel outside. One thing that happened to me is I left it outside and I think I fried my preamp. I had an RCA TVPRAMP1R that I think got fried by some rain. I need to make sure I weatherproof my stuff next time better. That's my first question... I think I understand how to put boots on the connector to the antenna and the preamp, but how do I connect two cables together? Do I have to weather proof that? Is there a weather proofing guide that I should follow?

I plan on buying another preamp in the next day or two, so let me know what you think I should do here. The preamp I had before seemed to work pretty well, but I am open to other options.

Next, I plan on grounding my antenna by running an 8 gauge copper wire from the antenna to the ground with a grounding rod. A diagram I found had the grounding wire from the antenna running down to a grounding block that the coax runs through, then down to the rod. Is this right? Should I be looking at doing anything else?

I plan on mounting my antenna on a j mount on the eave of my house as far up as I can get it, but probably close to 22-24' up. My eave is very large and I don't think that mounting on the house itself and clearing the eave will work since the eave is so wide. I plan on mounting it on two Channel Master 1805 masts making the total height 10 feet from the eave. I have a j mount already that has a diameter of 1.5". I noticed that the Channel Master 1805 masts say that they're universal and can fit basically all mounts, but that they are 1.25" in diameter. Is there an adapter that I will get with the masts that will adapt them to 1.5" in diameter? How do I fit a 1.25" mast in a 1.5" mount? The j mount I have is the one that comes with the ANT 751R. I this one sufficient or should I look for another?

Is this mast going to be sufficient or should I be looking at a more heavy duty mast?

Is there anything in general that you think I should know?
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Old 24-Aug-2013, 4:59 AM   #17
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Pete Higgins has posted a review of the TVPRAMP1R: http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=13530 that shows it to be a very good product.

I have no reviews to refer you to, but the Winegard LNA-200 specs are impressive.

If you need a 10 foot mast, consider a section of chain-link fence top rail. It's one gauge number thicker than the CM-18XX product. I find it at Home Depot locally. And it has a swedged end so you can stack it if needed. http://www.homedepot.com/p/YARDGARD-...2#.UhgvCn9GZA4

See post #20 for my summary of basic grounding: http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=901

I use Scotch #2228 sealing tape. Coax Seal is another brand name to look for. In either case you simply stretch it snugly as you wrap a connection to be sealed. Both products are tacky, so I wrap black electrical tape over the sealing tape to protect it from UV rays and dirt. Common electrical tape will not seal against moisture by itself.
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If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)

Last edited by GroundUrMast; 24-Aug-2013 at 5:08 AM. Reason: sealing tape
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Old 24-Aug-2013, 6:39 AM   #18
davidlukewilcox
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Thanks so much. One more question. How do I attach the mount to the mast? I assume I need something to ensure that the mast does not twist in the wind...
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Old 24-Aug-2013, 7:43 AM   #19
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I would try to find an alternative to using a J-pole as the anchor for a 5' or 10' mast. The leverage of the longer mast would put enough torque on the mounting bracket and fasteners that you would expect to see the whole assembly pulled loose from the roof.

If a wall or eve bracket does not work in your situation, consider a tripod such as the VMP TR-60. You get a solid base that spreads the load well and if needed, you can remove one base bracket bolt to tilt the entire assembly over for access to the antenna... while keeping two of the three legs connected to the roof deck.
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If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)

Last edited by GroundUrMast; 24-Aug-2013 at 7:45 AM. Reason: added link
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Old 24-Aug-2013, 12:53 PM   #20
davidlukewilcox
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I wasn't aware of "wall mounts" that can extend out past your eave. I think I'll try one of those. I was hoping not to use a tripod mount since I didn't want to drill a hole directly through the waterproof barrier of my house.
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