Need some help with OTA signal

douflag · 3-Apr-2012, 5:47 PM

Hi everyone,

Location: Chicago, IL 60616
Analysis: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...267e066ec86438
Antenna: Philips MANT510

We have just moved into a new place, and can't seem to pick up many channels here except 20 and 38. This place has only southeast facing windows and is adjacent to the lake. It is a highrise and I believe we are about 300-400 feet up. We're on the 25th/30 floors. It's also a fairly new building (2009), so I think it'll have a lot of concrete between units.

We've tried pointing the plate of the antenna towards N/NW and cannot get any channels. Pointing NE and out the window nets us the two channels above. The building is only wired for Comcast AFAIK. From the wall socket, there is a coax cable coming out into a EVO1-DB-6 (splitter?). Not sure what that is for.

We would prefer not to get cable as even the basic package runs close to $40/month (and that's without HD!). We're not allowed to put any dishes up, so cable is our only option. Is there an antenna which we can pick up that can net a better signal? Or are we pretty much stuck at this point? We would like to get at least the basic TV channels (i.e. CBS, NBC, ABC, CW, Fox).

TIA for helping and getting through the long winded post.

GroundUrMast · 3-Apr-2012, 6:21 PM

You have overpowering signal levels that demand you avoid any type of amplifier.

Consider using a non-amplified antenna such as the Terk HDTVi.

http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=2828

douflag · 3-Apr-2012, 6:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GroundUrMast

You have overpowering signal levels that demand you avoid any type of amplifier.

Consider using a non-amplified antenna such as the Terk HDTVi.

The antenna has the option to turn off the amplifier (I think). I'll try that and see if it makes a difference. If not, I'd be happy to pick up one of those antennae vs paying for cable.

Electron · 3-Apr-2012, 6:33 PM

The Tv transmitters to the north north west are 1.8 miles away , the transmissions VERY STRONG. Do Not use any type or kind of amplified antenna , the amplifier Will Overload and be the cause of bad reception or no reception. Install a Winegard FV-HD30 in a window that is to the north , And also install a variable attenuator #1296F , the attenuator will 'Dial Down' the signal strength of the tv transmissions that are way to strong. Buy the antenna and attenuator at http://www.solidsignal.com. The 1296F can also be used with the HDTVi.

Electron · 3-Apr-2012, 6:39 PM

The Tv Must Scan for the Digital Broadcast Tv Channels sometimes called the 'Antenna Channels' in the Tv's set up menu because the Tv transmissions travel through the air from the transmitting antenna to your receiving antenna. Do Not scan for cable tv channels.

GroundUrMast · 3-Apr-2012, 6:46 PM

I know the MANT-501 has a gain control but I don't know of a switch that completely removes the amplifier from the circuit. Unplugging the power won't do.

douflag · 3-Apr-2012, 7:05 PM

See post below.

douflag · 3-Apr-2012, 7:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electron

The Tv transmitters to the north north west are 1.8 miles away , the transmissions VERY STRONG. Do Not use any type or kind of amplified antenna , the amplifier Will Overload and be the cause of bad reception or no reception. Install a Winegard FV-HD30 in a window that is to the north , And also install a variable attenuator #1296F , the attenuator will 'Dial Down' the signal strength of the tv transmissions that are way to strong. Buy the antenna and attenuator at http://www.solidsignal.com. The 1296F can also be used with the HDTVi.

All of the windows are E/SE facing. This is a schematic of the place:

Would the setup you suggested work in this scenario?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electron

The Tv Must Scan for the Digital Broadcast Tv Channels sometimes called the 'Antenna Channels' in the Tv's set up menu because the Tv transmissions travel through the air from the transmitting antenna to your receiving antenna. Do Not scan for cable tv channels.

Yep. That's how it's always been because I've never had cable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GroundUrMast

I know the MANT-501 has a gain control but I don't know of a switch that completely removes the amplifier from the circuit. Unplugging the power won't do.

Darn, I was hoping that I could switch off the amplifier or unplugging it.

GroundUrMast · 3-Apr-2012, 10:04 PM

Given the extremely high power levels, the attenuation of the building may actually help you. The HDTVi offers a bit more directivity than basic rabbit-ear style indoor antennas, so if you have signals reflecting about due to the building construction, you may find it better suited for your application.

douflag · 6-Apr-2012, 3:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GroundUrMast

Given the extremely high power levels, the attenuation of the building may actually help you. The HDTVi offers a bit more directivity than basic rabbit-ear style indoor antennas, so if you have signals reflecting about due to the building construction, you may find it better suited for your application.

I know it's not the HDTVi, but I did pick up a passive rabbit ear with loop style antenna to see if it would get better reception, but I didn't pick up any channels at all. It is a Philips SDV1125T/27. Am I just using the antenna wrong or something? There's a little knob for gain I assume, but I'm not sure if it has any application here. I find it hard to believe that the HDTVi will make a dramatic difference.

douflag · 6-Apr-2012, 4:58 AM

I picked up a Philips SDV1125T/27 passive style antenna today to test it out, but it couldn't pick up any channels at all. Somehow, I doubt the HDTVi will make a dramatic difference.

Well, the Terk HDTVi should be here tomorrow, so I'll test it out. I'm hoping things will be a lot better with it.

Electron · 6-Apr-2012, 5:34 AM

Your unit is the one with the red star. If rectangle box in lower right corner of your unit is a balcony , put the antenna out there close to the edge , and aim the antenna to the east south east and south. Here is how to aim indoor type antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html

Electron · 6-Apr-2012, 5:35 AM

Yes it is Ok to use a long coax to connect the antenna to the Tv. No complaining about a coax cable running through your apartment , will you pay for tv reception or watch for free??

Electron · 6-Apr-2012, 7:05 AM

Could move to the unit on the north end of the building.

douflag · 7-Apr-2012, 2:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electron

Your unit is the one with the red star. If rectangle box in lower right corner of your unit is a balcony , put the antenna out there close to the edge , and aim the antenna to the east south east and south. Here is how to aim indoor type antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html

By pointing the antenna E/SE/S, would I need to have buildings in the area to pick up the reflected signals? If so, that's a problem, because there isn't much for a signal to bounce off of by where I'm at.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electron

Yes it is Ok to use a long coax to connect the antenna to the Tv. No complaining about a coax cable running through your apartment , will you pay for tv reception or watch for free??

Nah, I have an alien looking antenna (HDTVi) now, so that extra cable isn't going to make a difference to me. I think you may have mentioned about flat coax cables in other posts. Can you recommend one? Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electron

Could move to the unit on the north end of the building.

Well, that would just be impractical. lol

douflag · 7-Apr-2012, 2:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GroundUrMast

Given the extremely high power levels, the attenuation of the building may actually help you. The HDTVi offers a bit more directivity than basic rabbit-ear style indoor antennas, so if you have signals reflecting about due to the building construction, you may find it better suited for your application.

I did end up receiving the Terk HDTVi today, and I gotta say, what a difference. I picked up about 28-33 channels depending on how I placed the antenna. The antenna picked up the UHF channels with ease. However, I could only get 2 VHF channels (NBC, ABC). I was hoping to pick up channel 2 and 9 (CBS and CW) as well.

MisterMe · 7-Apr-2012, 4:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by douflag

... However, I could only get 2 VHF channels (NBC, ABC). I was hoping to pick up channel 2 and 9 (CBS and CW) as well.

There is no NBC VHF station anywhere near you. WMAQ (NBC 5 Chicago) broadcasts on RF29. WLS (ABC7 Chicago) broadcasts on two channels--RF7 and RF44. The RF44 signal is stronger at your location although RF7 has more than ample strength. RF44 is almost magnetic due north (359°) whereas RF7 is 334° magnetic. Although it is difficult to say with certainty which WLS signal you are receiving, it is more likely that you are receiving RF44 than RF7.

As for CBS, WBBM (CBS 2 HD) broadcasts on RF12 from the same tower as WLS (RF7) which I believe that you also do not receive. WGN, your CW affiliate, broadcasts on RF19. Because its direction (334° magnetic) is so close to WBBM, you should expect similar results. There may be some differences because WGN is UHF whereas WBBM is VHF.

Having said all that, I am happy to hear that the Terk HDTVi has improved your situation so dramatically. Because the structure of your apartment building stands between you and the TV signals you want to receive, you need to search your apartment very carefully for locations where your antenna can receive the remaining signals that you want.

GroundUrMast · 7-Apr-2012, 5:42 AM

Thanks for the update.

Virtual channel numbers are needed now that more than one program can be broadcast on the same RF channel, but the concept of a virtual channel provides the opportunity for much confusion. When selecting antennas, the virtual channel number is of no significance. Additionally, antennas have no awareness of analog vs. digital or HD vs. SD.

As you read your TVFR, it's important to distinguish between the real and virtual channel numbers. When I use the term UHF or VHF, I am always referring to the real channel. When deciding what type antenna is needed, focus on the real channel number, not the VC.

When setting up an antenna indoors, you may want to refer to the estimated dipole lengths posted here: http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=2828 If you are having trouble with a particular real channel 2 through 13, selecting the optimum dipole length for the problem channel may make a significant difference.

Electron · 7-Apr-2012, 7:39 AM

Type , holland 144823 , in the http://www.solidsignal.com , search box. I am going to sleep , I will return with more information.

douflag · 13-Apr-2012, 6:36 PM

Just an update. We just received our new TV yesterday and I plugged it into the cable outlet at our condo. I set the TV to cable pickup and lo' and behold, it got about 80 some channels. As far as I can tell, it doesn't look like I'm receiving cable programming, since it's just local channels. I'm a little baffled that our 6-7 yr old HDTV didn't display any pictures despite picking up the channels.