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Old 26-Feb-2016, 8:09 PM   #1
rackit7
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Fairfield Country CT

Now that the Super Bowl is over and warmer weather is coming, I plan to cut the cord.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5134ab571364ea

My primary goal is to get stations from NYC CBS 2,NBC 4,FOX 5,ABC 7,WWOR 9, WPIX11, WNET13
An added bonus would be to get WLIW 21 from Long Island, and from Connecticut WEDW 49, WTNH 8.

A recommendation for antenna's would be appreciated. Thanks!
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Old 26-Feb-2016, 10:15 PM   #2
shoman94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rackit7 View Post
Now that the Super Bowl is over and warmer weather is coming, I plan to cut the cord.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5134ab571364ea

My primary goal is to get stations from NYC CBS 2,NBC 4,FOX 5,ABC 7,WWOR 9, WPIX11, WNET13
An added bonus would be to get WLIW 21 from Long Island, and from Connecticut WEDW 49, WTNH 8.

A recommendation for antenna's would be appreciated. Thanks!
How is the line of site from your mounting location looking at 245 degrees magnetic? You'll need to be roof mounted antenna and need a preamp for sure.

Last edited by shoman94; 26-Feb-2016 at 10:17 PM.
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Old 27-Feb-2016, 12:08 PM   #3
rackit7
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Thanks.

At 245 degrees from my roof apex, I just have tree tops about 100 ft away, no land or buildings. My estimate of 30 ft off the ground is based on a roof mount. My roof peak is 27ft off the ground, I could probably get to 35-37ft.
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Old 27-Feb-2016, 1:46 PM   #4
shoman94
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Originally Posted by rackit7 View Post
Thanks.

At 245 degrees from my roof apex, I just have tree tops about 100 ft away, no land or buildings. My estimate of 30 ft off the ground is based on a roof mount. My roof peak is 27ft off the ground, I could probably get to 35-37ft.
This is probably the direction I'd concentrate on.
For the UHF station you'll want a high gain antenna such as the Antennas Direct DB8e and aim it at 245 magnetic. This will get you the UHF stations you want and more I'm sure. It might also pick up WLIW but you "may" have to aim the antenna a bit towards 206 degrees without losing your main channels at 245.
WEDW will possibly be picked up by the back side of the antenna but I would concentrate on one PBS channel. Whichever work best based on your main direction of 245. Who knows.... you may get both. =)

You can get it from Antennas Direct directly or also at Amazon for 20 bucks less...
DB8e Amazon link

For your (HI)VHF channels
WTNH and WABC should be had using the VHF Retrofit kit from Antennas Direct mounted above the DB8e and pointed at the same 245 degrees.
2 other channels I think is a high possibility is WNET(another PBS) and WPIX (CW)

You can get the retrofit kit the same way. Here is the Amazon link:
http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direc...f+retrofit+kit

I would recommend the Antennas Direct Juice amp. I don't have any experience with any other amp but I know there are others that could work for you also which are a bit cheaper. But I love that the Juice includes an LTE filter and is very resistant to overload.
Can you also provide an FMfool report for you location? You'll have to snapshot it and attach it for us to view.
Also a 37ft tvfool report would be good to see what that extra footage would do for you. I would think you would want to be at least 3 feet above your roof for snow clearance for the antenna and have the room to mount the VHF kit above it.

Don't forget to ground you antenna mast with a separate ground wire and also ground your RG6 shielding with a ground block just prior to it entering the house.

I hope this helps and I'm no expert. I'm just using what I've experienced recently cutting the cord and getting my setup installed. The experts may chime in here also. Remember every situation is different and does require some trial and error. Definitely try to aim everything without using the preamp first and no splitters. Add the preamp after and then fine tune again. I recommend this because it helped me with the multipath issues I had.

GOOD LUCK and let us know how your progress goes!
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Old 27-Feb-2016, 2:04 PM   #5
rackit7
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Thanks, appreciate the advice.
I have attached the FM Report.
Attached Images
File Type: png Radar-FM.png (114.0 KB, 339 views)
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Old 27-Feb-2016, 2:47 PM   #6
shoman94
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Originally Posted by rackit7 View Post
Thanks, appreciate the advice.
I have attached the FM Report.
You may need to install an FM filter after installing the preamp if you have signal fluctuations. The Radioshack 1500024 is an example which I used. I believe Antennas Direct and MCM Electronics also makes them.
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Old 1-Mar-2016, 12:14 AM   #7
rackit7
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I am trying understand the VHF retrofit kit. So when I see WCBS which I know as channel 2; in fact is a UHF frequency at either 22 or 33? And, there are two because there are 2 different transmitters for the same station, one in NYC and one on Long Island?

The VHF retrofit seems like a real small piece of gear, sorry to sound silly, but should it pull NYC stations from 45 miles away like WABC, WNET, or WPIX? On another note if it did not pick them up, I could receive ABC programming from WNTH and PBS from WLIW (Long Island) and/or WEDW from Bridgeport?

Is this why a long range UHF antenna like the DB8e would be better in my situation than a VHF/UHF combo like the Winegard HD 7698?

One last question, thoughts about the DB4e as I believe it has wider beam width - 60 degrees? Would it give a better a shot at getting both the stations from NYC and Long Island? Thanks for the input.
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Old 1-Mar-2016, 1:42 AM   #8
shoman94
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Originally Posted by rackit7 View Post
I am trying understand the VHF retrofit kit. So when I see WCBS which I know as channel 2; in fact is a UHF frequency at either 22 or 33? And, there are two because there are 2 different transmitters for the same station, one in NYC and one on Long Island?

Looks to be the case.
Quote:
Analog-to-digital conversion[edit]
WCBS-TV discontinued regular programming on its analog signal, over VHF channel 2, at 2 p.m. on June 12, 2009, as part of the federally mandated transition from analog to digital television.[7] The station's digital signal relocated from its pre-transition UHF channel 56, which was among the high band UHF channels (52-69) that were removed from broadcasting use as a result of the transition, to UHF channel 33,[8] using PSIP to display WCBS-TV's virtual channel as 2 on digital television receivers. Since the station qualified for the nightlight clause in the DTV Delay Act,[9] WCBS kept its analog signal on for one month to provide public service announcements, permanently shutting it down during the early morning hours of July 13, 2009; this possibly made it the last full power NTSC broadcast television station in the United States to discontinue analog transmissions.[9]

WCBS-TV currently has a construction permit for a digital fill-in translator on channel 22 in Plainview, Long Island, which will serve portions of eastern and central Long Island where WCBS-TV's signal is affected by the presence of WFSB, a CBS affiliate in Hartford, Connecticut which also broadcasts on channel 33.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rackit7 View Post
The VHF retrofit seems like a real small piece of gear, sorry to sound silly, but should it pull NYC stations from 45 miles away like WABC, WNET, or WPIX? On another note if it did not pick them up, I could receive ABC programming from WNTH and PBS from WLIW (Long Island) and/or WEDW from Bridgeport?
Its trial and error for sure. I have 2 channels that are 45ish miles away I'm getting with that dipole. There is a couple other options that have been recommended in a few other threads from Stellar Labs. These are larger antennas.
MCM Part #30-2475
and
MCM Part #30-2476
One last option is the Clearstream 5 which has the gain in between the Stellar Labs antennas and the Dipoles but it is the most expensive.
Clearstream 5

They definately have more gain but you only have 3 VHF(hi) stations and CW is the only one that you can't get on UHF.
WABC (ABC) which is close
WPIX (CW) and WNET (PBS) .... those are out there and I'm sure you would have the best shot with the larger antennas. I pickup two channels that are about the same distance as yours but a weaker signal with 10 less NM(db)s. Again.... this is something that can always be returned if it doesn't work. Its the unfortunately thing about this. What works for one doesn't always work for the other.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rackit7 View Post
Is this why a long range UHF antenna like the DB8e would be better in my situation than a VHF/UHF combo like the Winegard HD 7698?
I recommended the DB8e for pure GAIN and its quality. You could always try the Winegard and if it works.... great and if not it could be returned. It was just my opinion as I'm no expert.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rackit7 View Post
One last question, thoughts about the DB4e as I believe it has wider beam width - 60 degrees? Would it give a better a shot at getting both the stations from NYC and Long Island? Thanks for the input.
That beam is not wide enough since the other stations are almost in the opposite direction so I think getting the most gain on one direction and based on the wanted channels you listed is a better choice. The DB8e will probably pick up some stations from the back side of the antenna.

Last edited by shoman94; 1-Mar-2016 at 2:38 AM.
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Old 1-Mar-2016, 3:01 AM   #9
rackit7
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Thanks Shoman94, this is a lot of useful information. I appreciate the time and effort in your response. I have found so many postings on this forum that were really useful.

One clarification, when I referred to the Long Island stations, specifically I was thinking of WLIW 21 which is at 206 degrees(magnetic) which I am seeing as a delta of 39 degrees from the NYC stations at 245 degrees. Is the thinking that I would aim at 245 or would I cheat toward 240 or 235? I am not asking for an absolute, understanding every installation is different, just looking for the approach and logic. This was the basis of my question about the Db4e.

Lastly, is the below FM trap recommended? Does this get installed before the pre-amp (e.g. Juice) or after?

https://www.antennasdirect.com/store...on_filter.html
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Old 1-Mar-2016, 3:16 AM   #10
rackit7
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For giggles I reran the TV signal Analysis at 35 ft(below) and 40 ft; from my perspective they are marginally different. But when I ran it at 50ft (below) it changed quite a bit.

35 FT
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...51344226589ada

50 FT
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5134fd2f4301ef

Bottom line, if I try an antenna (e.g. DB8e or DB4e) and do not like the results, one solution is UP!! Although at 50 ft it will not be ME installing it.
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Old 1-Mar-2016, 3:26 AM   #11
shoman94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rackit7 View Post
Thanks Shoman94, this is a lot of useful information. I appreciate the time and effort in your response. I have found so many postings on this forum that were really useful.

One clarification, when I referred to the Long Island stations, specifically I was thinking of WLIW 21 which is at 206 degrees(magnetic) which I am seeing as a delta of 39 degrees from the NYC stations at 245 degrees. Is the thinking that I would aim at 245 or would I cheat toward 240 or 235? I am not asking for an absolute, understanding every installation is different, just looking for the approach and logic. This was the basis of my question about the Db4e.

Lastly, is the below FM trap recommended? Does this get installed before the pre-amp (e.g. Juice) or after?

https://www.antennasdirect.com/store...on_filter.html
WLIW is a fairly strong station and should really be picked up by the side lobe beams coming from the antenna. Plus you have adjustability that you can trial and error with that changes the effect as shown in the data sheet for the DB8e. I would say you'll likely aim it 245ish.
That is one of the trails. There are a few and they all attenuate a little differently so it would depend on the gradient of the station. I'm currently on my phone so I don't have the time to search around the threads for it now. If you don't have any luck I should be able to tomorrow sometime. I have 2 FM filters on my setup and I still think it's an issue so tonight I just ordered an FM splitter which will remove all frequencies below channel 7 and not just attenuate the signals.
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Old 1-Mar-2016, 3:33 AM   #12
shoman94
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Can I see your 40ft
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Old 1-Mar-2016, 3:37 AM   #13
rackit7
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Here's the 40 FT

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...51346e59e9a37e
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Old 1-Mar-2016, 3:50 AM   #14
shoman94
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Looking at those numbers.... I believe you could easily use the DB4e and the dipole's....
So if you are 27' to the peak.... Use a 10' or 12' pipe (galvanized) for your mast. I'd say 1.25" to 1.5" OD.
Mount the dipole at the top and mount the db4e 3 feet below the dipole. It will look similar to my attached photo of my setup. Getting those 2 antennas should save you some money too.
Also, yes the fm trap or splitter would get installed between the antenna and the preamp.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20160229_165731602_TOP-768x1024.jpg (110.7 KB, 402 views)

Last edited by shoman94; 1-Mar-2016 at 3:52 AM.
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Old 2-Mar-2016, 4:41 AM   #15
rackit7
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The photo is really helpful. The pole looks to be about 12'? Is the eave mount the Winegard sw-0012? Thx.
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Old 2-Mar-2016, 11:41 AM   #16
shoman94
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The photo is really helpful. The pole looks to be about 12'? Is the eave mount the Winegard sw-0012? Thx.
Its a 10 footer galvanized that I picked up from Lowe's. Yes that is the mount Winegard mount

It doesn't come with the small section of pole as shown in amazon's photo.

You can see I have a C4v antenna but I ordered the DB4e last night. Its funny how my strongest station is still giving me some multipath issues when its windy. I ordered a FM splitter (FM Splitter link) also because it's also possible that its related to the 2 FM stations 3 miles from me. I'm thinking the 2 FM filters are not strong enough.

Last edited by shoman94; 2-Mar-2016 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 2-Mar-2016, 1:02 PM   #17
ADTech
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Its funny how my strongest station is still giving me some multipath issues when its windy.
That is a TREE problem, not an antenna problem.

Here are some threads in which I've offered my opinion: http://forum.tvfool.com/search.php?searchid=853480
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Last edited by ADTech; 2-Mar-2016 at 1:05 PM.
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Old 2-Mar-2016, 1:17 PM   #18
shoman94
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That is a TREE problem, not an antenna problem.

Here are some threads in which I've offered my opinion: http://forum.tvfool.com/search.php?searchid=853480
That's what I figured but it goes away when I aimed directly at it and its never happened with my C2 so I'm thinking that the wider beam is what I need. I also have no trees within 1000feet of my house in that direction. That station is 42.9NM also and 26 miles and 38 degrees off center aim of my antenna. I have others going through trees that give me no issues...lol. I was going to try stacking my C4v again but the baluns,combiner and short cables are half the price of the DB4e from Amazon and has 2dbi more gain. I'm out 150 bucks for my C4v though which sucks!

Last edited by shoman94; 2-Mar-2016 at 1:24 PM.
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