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Old 8-Sep-2015, 1:22 PM   #21
rickbb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irata View Post

I talked to the lady across the street with the antenna tower(not pictured). It's a bit shorter but only installed a few years back. Said it was never used and told me I could have it if I could get it removed safely.


You should jump on that, or put up a gable end mast pole mounting system with 15 to 20 feet of mast and guy wires on your roof. Add a "real" antenna and you may be surprised at what you can pick up.

Your improvements with just moving it up higher indicates to me that it's worth the trouble to go for it.
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Old 11-Sep-2015, 3:49 PM   #22
Irata
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Originally Posted by rickbb View Post
You should jump on that, or put up a gable end mast pole mounting system with 15 to 20 feet of mast and guy wires on your roof. Add a "real" antenna and you may be surprised at what you can pick up.

Your improvements with just moving it up higher indicates to me that it's worth the trouble to go for it.
What kind of real antenna are you suggesting? I've been spending a lot of time at Amazon reading reviews of different antennas. And it's not helping.
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Old 11-Sep-2015, 4:00 PM   #23
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Reading reviews on Amazon is the absolute WORST possible way to select an antenna. Antenna selection is more of a science and most reviewers are a very, very long way away from being scientists. Reviews set unrealistic expectations because the reader cannot possibly know the factors that lead to either success or failure for any particular customer.

Start with your precise location and a defined list of requirements and capabilities/restrictions. Someone who is experienced can then go over those lists and determine what is and isn't doable and what's needed to try and pull it off. As already noted a few days ago, you prospects are very poor for your stated goals.
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Old 11-Sep-2015, 4:51 PM   #24
Irata
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Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
Reading reviews on Amazon is the absolute WORST possible way to select an antenna. Antenna selection is more of a science and most reviewers are a very, very long way away from being scientists. Reviews set unrealistic expectations because the reader cannot possibly know the factors that lead to either success or failure for any particular customer.

Start with your precise location and a defined list of requirements and capabilities/restrictions. Someone who is experienced can then go over those lists and determine what is and isn't doable and what's needed to try and pull it off. As already noted a few days ago, you prospects are very poor for your stated goals.
The biggest restriction at the moment is that it will need to be roof mounted. Though my neighbor offered to give me her tower I do not have the capabilities to take it down, move it and reassemble it. I would have to outsource that to someone and I doubt I can afford that at this time. Of course I am also assuming it would be expensive. I have had e-mail conversation with a local guy who stated he does antenna installation. Though he wasn't very forthcoming with information I may inquire with him if that is work he performs.

I would prefer not to have to mount a 12' long antenna if there are other options available. A roof mount antenna option that will continue to allow me to get the stations I have and give me the best possible chance at my desired goal. rickbb suggested a better antenna with 15-20 of mast with guy wires. Guy wires, outside of knowing their basic function, is not something I have ever messed with. I'm not a handy man either, at least not a quality one. Couple limitations there.

Indiana weather can be fickle. It's cold in the winter and snowy. Spring and early summer gets very heavy storms with pretty strong winds so whatever I did would need to be able to stand up to that.

I don't know if I answered the list of requirements and capabilities/restrictions properly. Let e know if I didn't.
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Old 11-Sep-2015, 11:56 PM   #25
rabbit73
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How about a ground mounted mast. It would be more secure than an eave mount, but less expensive than a tower.
http://manuals.solidsignal.com/AntInstallGuide.pdf
page 12
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File Type: jpg Ground Mounted Mast.JPG (121.5 KB, 373 views)
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Old 12-Sep-2015, 12:40 AM   #26
Irata
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Thank you for the documentation rabbit73.

How high can the mast be on a ground mount (if I missed that in the PDF I apologize)? I've attached a picture of the side of my house. I was thinking that a ground mount could be closer to the actual entry point to shorten the coax run. The gas line may be a problem as I currently do not know where the utility comes in from. The biggest concern of mine would be mounting that close to the electrical lines coming to the house and whether that is safe or not.



If you look in the distance you can see the tower my neighbor may or may not be willing to part with for free.
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Old 12-Sep-2015, 3:01 AM   #27
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Better to have the mast on the south side away from the power lines and so that the top of the mast would be clamped to the peak, your highest support point, to avoid the need for guy wires.
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Old 12-Sep-2015, 2:52 PM   #28
Irata
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Better to have the mast on the south side away from the power lines and so that the top of the mast would be clamped to the peak, your highest support point, to avoid the need for guy wires.
Downside to south side is that is my deck. Gives a somewhat solid base, but a base I plan on tearing out one day and building a patio. Could always drill a hole to place through. There is a base of landscaping rocks underneath.
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Old 12-Sep-2015, 4:55 PM   #29
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This is the way KevinT did it, but the highest support point is pretty far down from the top.

http://www.highdefforum.com/1387304-post20.html

http://www.highdefforum.com/local-hd...nna-amp-2.html
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File Type: jpg KevinThdfAnt.jpg (88.4 KB, 432 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 12-Sep-2015 at 5:02 PM.
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Old 13-Sep-2015, 11:05 PM   #30
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Any thoughts on actual antennas?

Yagi like the RCA ANT3038XR (just an example)? This is where my reading Amazon reviews comes in. Sometimes the 1 star reviews have comments that have nuggets of info that may or may not be correct but open questions. Is this type of antenna better for VHF?

Or a bowtie like a DB8e with a secondary VHF be a better option to try?
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Old 16-Sep-2015, 1:28 AM   #31
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Quote:
RCA ANT3038XR
I can't find any specs on that antenna, and I found two different images for it. It looks like it might also cover VHF-Low (real channels 2-6), which you don't need.

Seems like you want to concentrate on Louisville, use your RCA TVPRAMP1R preamp, and switch to another antenna. The weakest signal you need is WHAS ABC real channel 11, so the antenna must be for VHF-High and UHF aimed at 140 degrees magnetic by pocket compass, not a smart phone compass. The smallest antenna you can get away with is the Winegard HD7694P. The 7697 would be better for 1 and 2Edge signals; the 7698 is probably bigger than you need. Except for your tests, it's difficult to predict the results with the possibility of trees and those tall towers visible in the background, but they were probably necessary for Indy, not Louisville.

Quote:
The biggest concern of mine would be mounting that close to the electrical lines coming to the house and whether that is safe or not.
Your concern is justified, it wouldn't be safe.

Quote:
Or a bowtie like a DB8e with a secondary VHF be a better option to try?
That would work, but most of the VHF-High only antennas are no longer being made, so we are left with combo antennas.

I like the outline typeface you used on the photo in your post #26. It works well on light or dark backgrounds. I don't have an outline typeface in any of my software. What is the name of the typeface font and where did you get it?
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Last edited by rabbit73; 16-Sep-2015 at 11:14 AM.
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Old 16-Sep-2015, 1:53 PM   #32
Irata
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Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
I can't find any specs on that antenna, and I found two different images for it. It looks like it might also cover VHF-Low (real channels 2-6), which you don't need.

Seems like you want to concentrate on Louisville, use your RCA TVPRAMP1R preamp, and switch to another antenna. The weakest signal you need is WHAS ABC real channel 11, so the antenna must be for VHF-High and UHF aimed at 140 degrees magnetic by pocket compass, not a smart phone compass. The smallest antenna you can get away with is the Winegard HD7694P. The 7697 would be better for 1 and 2Edge signals; the 7698 is probably bigger than you need. Except for your tests, it's difficult to predict the results with the possibility of trees and those tall towers visible in the background, but they were probably necessary for Indy, not Louisville.

Your concern is justified, it wouldn't be safe.

That would work, but most of the VHF-High only antennas are no longer being made, so we are left with combo antennas.

I like the outline typeface you used on the photo in your post #26. It works well on light or dark backgrounds. I don't have an outline typeface in any of my software. What is the name of the typeface font and where did you get it?
Thank you for the response. I'll check out the Winegard antennas, do some reading today. Still trying to decide about the ground mast idea and if I want that on the deck area of my house.

Getting all the networks from Louisville would be ideal, covers the TV shows I like plus all the various sub channel stuff like Cozi and MeTV. The two Indy stations I'm still most concerned with are WTTV 48 (4.1) & WXIN 45 (59.1) for NFL reasons. WTTV comes in fine but I think it's transmitter is a lot closer. WXIN seems to come in after 5-6 pm fine, but not before that usually.

WRTV 25 (6.1) documented earlier in this thread comes in fairly consistently all day. Go figure.

I actually did that in Photoshop. The type style is Tahoma. I got the outline by rasterizing the text and then adding a line around it.
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Old 10-Oct-2015, 7:27 PM   #33
Irata
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Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
How about a ground mounted mast. It would be more secure than an eave mount, but less expensive than a tower.
http://manuals.solidsignal.com/AntInstallGuide.pdf
page 12

Yes, I'm still working on this.

Is a ground mount a way to install an antenna without having to get on your roof? I climbed up there to test out how comfortable I was. Yeah, not happening.
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Old 10-Oct-2015, 8:23 PM   #34
rabbit73
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Is a ground mount a way to install an antenna without having to get on your roof?
Yes, you can put it where you were going to put your original antenna.
https://www.google.com/search?q=ante...OcJsQ&dpr=1.25
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IrataTVFant1 (2).jpg (120.2 KB, 444 views)
File Type: jpg IrataTVFant3.jpg (65.7 KB, 359 views)
File Type: jpg IrataTVFant4.jpg (5.4 KB, 385 views)
File Type: jpg IrataTVFant5.jpg (138.2 KB, 394 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 10-Oct-2015 at 8:37 PM.
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Old 11-Oct-2015, 5:01 PM   #35
Irata
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Yes, you can put it where you were going to put your original antenna.
https://www.google.com/search?q=ante...OcJsQ&dpr=1.25
Cool. If I was using my deck as a base it's about 15 feet to the peak. Figuring a need to having the mast taller than the house would you use maybe a 25' telescoping mast?
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Old 11-Oct-2015, 5:08 PM   #36
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If the top of the mast is 5 feet above the peak, and the joint at the bottom of the top section is below the bracket at the peak, that would be OK. If the top of the mast is 10 feet above the peak, it would depend upon where the joint at the bottom of the top section is located. If the joint at the bottom of the top section is above the peak, then the mast would need guy wires, which you probably don't want to mess with.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 11-Oct-2015 at 5:17 PM.
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Old 11-Nov-2015, 11:21 PM   #37
Irata
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I finally got a different antenna up. Decided to see if the bowtie style db8e worked well. Had someone do the install as I discovered I was uncomfortable standing on a roof. One panel is facing Indy, the other Louisville.



Using the Tivo, the signal was a bit improved on all the stations I usually got from what I remember. Should have done a test before starting.

The installer added a FM trap. I now pick up 11 out of Louisville. Strength shows 42 but it stays very consistent.

Channels 6 and 59 from Indy are more consistent during the afternoon test but the picture stills drops a little. Signal meter shows fluctuating from 40-49.

He recommended getting a better preamp. He thought he had one with him but he didn't.

I also have a ClearStream 5 that we didn't set up. He felt splitting the signal more may have more negative effect on what I do get for any gains on the VHF channels I'm not getting.

Would this antenna still pick up signal from the backside if both sides were facing the same direction?

Last edited by Irata; 11-Nov-2015 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 12-Nov-2015, 1:14 PM   #38
rickbb
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To receive signals from both sides you would need both panels aimed in the same direction AND remove the reflectors from both.

Both panels aimed in the same direction makes the DB8e one of, (if not the), highest gain UHF antennas you can buy.
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Old 15-Nov-2015, 12:21 AM   #39
Irata
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Thanks for the reply. Not sure I want to do that. So far pretty good. Had college football on WRTV 6 from Indy on all afternoon, very minimal issues. Couldn't say that a week ago. WXIN still comes and goes a bit.

Messing around today with this.



I put the ClearStream 5 up, pointed towards Louisville and direct connected to a TV. Was able to pick up 11 (VFH) and 32 (UHF) clear. Not sure if a preamp would help reception but I may connect it to mine tomorrow and see what it does. (can you tell I'm having fun just experimenting?)

Is there a way to combine two antennas without db loss? Or a way to compensate? Looking at the numbers suggests to my newbie knowledge base that WRTV and WXIN could be lost if I tried to combine them.
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Old 21-Nov-2015, 4:13 PM   #40
Irata
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Ok, per the installers suggestion I swapped the RCA preamp for a Stellar Labs that he usually uses.

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produc...-2465-/30-2465

Unfortunately did not change my reception but no big deal. Fairly inexpensive test.

Today I took the RCA preamp and connected to the C5. I ran it directly to a spare TV and did a channel scan. I picked up clear (though only did a few seconds each) all the channels from Louisville. Yea! But I also picked up 2 channels from Indianapolis that I did not expect.

If I pointed both sides of the bowtie towards Indy and tried to combine it with the C5 pointing towards Louisville am I going to run into problems with both antennas picking up signals from the opposite direction?
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