Newbie needs help with TV antenna reception

dprljackson · 10-Dec-2010, 6:09 PM

Hi all,

I'm a newbie when it comes to TV antennas. I live in Carlisle, PA. Here is a link to the tvfool report:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...da32d95f4868c9

Here is the situation. We just moved to a new house and got our first HD television. We have a TV antenna that was purchased at Radio Shack about 10 years ago. I thought I'd try to use it in the attic of our new house. After a little fiddling around, we were able to pull in everything we wanted. abc, nbc, cbs, cw, pbs, and fox. The "tough" channels were nbc (8.1) and fox (43.1). So we lived like this for a month or so and then had solar panels installed on the roof. The antenna was pointed directly through the portion of the roof where the solar panels went. This messed up the reception. So I went into the attic and messed around. It didn't seem to help much until I moved the antenna way over so that it was pointing just past where the solar panels end. Voila, reception was back, although not quite as good, with the exception of fox which didn't come in at all.

After a while, we decided that we really wanted to get fox back. So I took the antenna out of the attic and went up on the roof. I thought that the reception would be far better once the antenna was out of the attic. I tried holding the antenna and walking all over the roof but could never get fox to come in. I'm really puzzled by this. I don't understand how I could have been receiving it inside the attic and now I can't get it outside. Could the solar panels be causing a problem? It thought perhaps there was some reflection problems but I tried the antenna a ways away from the panels and also in front of the panels and still no luck.

The antenna I'm using is a UHF/VHF that is approximately 7 feet in length with V-angled pieces that are about 4-5 feet in width. Sorry I can't be more specific about what kind it is. When the solar panels were first installed and we lost reception, I went and purchased an antennacraft HBU33 from radio shack (http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=3740646). I tried this in the attic and it was no better than the one we already have. I did not try the HBU33 outside.

So anyway. I'd appreciate any help I can get. I really want to pick up fox. I'm not against purchasing a newer (better) antenna. I guess the ideal scenario from my perspective would be to find something that would work in the attic. Unfortunately, there's not a lot of space up there and not a lot of room to "rotate" the antenna around. I'm not completely opposed to mounting it outside but would prefer something smaller that would be easier to mount and not so big and ugly. Perhaps one of those disc-type antennas. I'm guessing, however, that these disc-type antennas won't work for what I need.

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David

Tower Guy · 10-Dec-2010, 6:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dprljackson

I'd appreciate any help I can get. I really want to pick up fox.
David

Fox is coming from 110° and weaker, the others from 54°-83° and stronger. The FOX antenna should be on the roof. There is no one antenna solution that does not require a rotator.

I'd aim the HBU33 at about 69° and the older antenna at 110° and then play with combining them. At first try a splitter backwards. Next consider an A/B switch. Other options are a Jointenna for channel 47 to combine the two antennas and a rotator on the HBU-33.

dprljackson · 10-Dec-2010, 7:11 PM

I already took the HBU33 back since it was no better than the one I already have. The problem is that I can't get fox no matter where I aim the antenna. In fact, I get everything with one antenna except fox. When I aim the antenna at 110, everything comes in except fox.

David

Tower Guy · 10-Dec-2010, 8:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dprljackson

I already took the HBU33 back since it was no better than the one I already have. The problem is that I can't get fox no matter where I aim the antenna. In fact, I get everything with one antenna except fox. When I aim the antenna at 110, everything comes in except fox.

David

The antenna needed to be outdoors and aimed at 110° in order to get FOX.

John Candle · 10-Dec-2010, 11:24 PM

Is WGAL 8 NBC received ? I see at the >>Start MAPS<< part of tvfool that the transmitters are very close. Is there a building or trees or something that is close to your location that can block UHF 47. The UHF channels are more easy blocked then VHF channels.

dprljackson · 11-Dec-2010, 3:44 PM

Quote:

Is WGAL 8 NBC received ? I see at the >>Start MAPS<< part of tvfool that the transmitters are very close. Is there a building or trees or something that is close to your location that can block UHF 47. The UHF channels are more easy blocked then VHF channels.

Yes, WGAL 8 is received. It is the most difficult station to receive (next to FOX) but it comes in relatively easily. Yes, the transmitters are basically right next to each other and it looks like the reception at our house is about the same for both. There are definitely some trees close to the house in that direction but since WGAL comes in so well, it seems like FOX should as well.

Tower guy - in answer to your question. Yes, I had the antenna outside and was pointing it to 110 degrees and still could not bring it in. It's just so confusing because we used to get it with the antenna in the attic.

I'm open to purchasing a new antenna and having installed as long as I *know* it's going to work. Any suggestions on an antenna type would be appreciated. It looks like height is not much of an issue for FOX as it doesn't appear to significantly increase in signal until you get beyond 100 feet or so.

Tower Guy · 11-Dec-2010, 3:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dprljackson

Tower guy - in answer to your question. Yes, I had the antenna outside and was pointing it to 110 degrees and still could not bring it in. It's just so confusing because we used to get it with the antenna in the attic.

Take a look at the data here. You happened to try an unlucky height.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/siting.html

dprljackson · 12-Dec-2010, 1:20 PM

OK - so it's probably just a case of wave diffraction causing all kinds of interference. I'm guessing my best bet is purchase something like a Winegard HD-9032 antenna and point it directly at 110 degrees, and if I can't get FOX with that then it's basically hopeless. Is that a reasonable assumption?

Assuming I can get FOX with that (and assuming it does not bring in everything else), then I can try combining the two antennas as was suggested earlier.

The HD-9032 seems to have the best gain near FOX (15.7 at channel 50) and is reasonably priced. Is there any other antenna I should consider before going this route?

By the way - thanks all for the help.

David

Tower Guy · 12-Dec-2010, 2:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dprljackson

Is there any other antenna I should consider before going this route?

David

91XG. Move it around and try different heights before you give up.

dprljackson · 15-Dec-2010, 4:32 PM

OK - I've decided to go with the Winegard 9032 and a channel master CM-7777 pre amp. If this brings in FOX reliably, I'll worry about exactly how to get everything else at the same time. Might require a second antenna. But first things first. We'll see how the 9032 does. I'll let you know the results.

David

ADTech · 15-Dec-2010, 6:48 PM

Tigerbangs · 16-Dec-2010, 2:59 AM

The point that AD Tech is making is a good one: if you are going with a large UHF yagi, buy the AntennasDirect XG-91 rather than the PR-9032: its a better antenna, and, when shipping costs are figured in, costs only a few dollars more than the 9032. The 9032 ships with it's boom intact, and incurs oversize shipping charges from most carriers: the XG-91 ships knocked down, and ships for MUCH less.

dprljackson · 16-Dec-2010, 1:52 PM

Too late - already ordered the 9032. Probably should have ordered the 91XG but I wanted to get an order in and didn't see this data till it was too late. In any event, either one of these antennas *should* work. I think the real difficulty is going to be trying to figure out how to get everything else in addition to FOX. I'm assuming that I won't get channel 8 with this antenna (it would make things a lot easier if I do).

But I'll worry about that after I see if this antenna works.

dprljackson · 18-Dec-2010, 10:21 PM

OK - I got the 9032 assemble it and ran a quick test. I hooked up the antenna with the CM 7777 pre-amp and about 100 feet of coax. Then I went out on the roof and held the antenna in various locations and pointed it in various directions. Not even a hint of FOX (or PBS or CW for that matter). For the record, the antenna was on a relatively short (~3 foot) mast but I held it to different heights including up high over my head (total height about 10 feet above roof).

I must be doing something wrong! I had a much "worse" antenna picking up FOX inside my attic for crying out loud - and now I can't get so much as a peep from it with a much more sensitive antenna and a much better pre-amp. Could it be that the solar panels are really screwing everything up? That's the conclusion I'm starting to come to.

So now I feel like I've wasted my money and am no closer than I was before. I'm about ready to throw in the towel at this point but if someone can give me some advice, I'm willing to try (almost) anything. I hate the thought of getting cable or satellite, but at this point it looks like that's where I'm headed.

Discouraged, disgruntled, and disgusted...

Tower Guy · 19-Dec-2010, 2:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dprljackson

OK - if someone can give me some advice, I'm willing to try (almost) anything. .

Did you try it without the 7777 preamp?

dprljackson · 21-Dec-2010, 12:46 PM

No - I didn't try it without the pre-amp. I guess I can although I don't see why that should make a difference. I was still able to get the "strong" stations (ABC and CBS). But as I said - I'm willing to try anything.

Anyone else have some suggestion to try while I'm up on the roof?

Tower Guy · 21-Dec-2010, 3:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dprljackson

I don't see why that should make a difference.

Your two strongest TV stations are too strong for the 7777, but you are not aimed at them. The results are unpredictable.

Your strongest FM stations are also too strong for the 7777, and the internal FM trap won't work low in the band on WITF-FM (89.5). To complicate the situation further, the old antenna that you have picks up FM very well.

Here's an example of overload. The 7777 is the Titan model:
http://photos.imageevent.com/holl_an...20RevK.xls.pdf

To run the calculations at your location you can actually download the Excel spreadsheet here
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/files/ota

Don't forget to add the FM stations.