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Old 31-Dec-2011, 5:35 PM   #1
Delucat2
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Setting up OTA - Los Angeles about 62 Miles from Mt Wilson

Hello,
I am trying to get setup for OTA reception, and this is what I am dealing with.
Location

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...403375fddbc5c0

62 miles from the major LA trasmitters on Mt Wilson. I have the following hardware:

Channel Master 7778 Preamp

Channel Master 4228HD Antenna mounted at 20' level on roof. Clear line of sight (LOS) to Mt Wilson. There are 1000 - 1500' hills about 14 miles distant , but to the south of my LOS.

30ft of good coax with High Quality crimped on connectors.

TV
I have a Vizio TV and am using the internal tuner.

Wehen doing a scan I only get about 20 stations (most junk), and only receive the following that I really want: NBC 4.1, 4.2 and 4.4 and KTLA 5.1. These come in pretty welll, though 4.1 comes and goes. 5.1 is rock solid and crystal clear.

I really want to get channels 2 CBS, 7 ABC and FOX 11 , as well as 9 and 13.

I see that KTLA pushes 1000kw, but so does CBS. Not really sure why I get 4 and 5 but not the others.

Do I need a directional boom antenna like the 91 GX and or a VHF antenna like the YA 1713?

Or do I need a decent OTA Tuner? The Visio has no signal strength meter.

I remember years ago that the tuner in out hitachi VCR was way better than the tuner in our TV.

Thanks,
Tony
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Old 31-Dec-2011, 6:51 PM   #2
Electron
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Tv antennas and Tv reception

Install a Winegard HD7084P antenna with the CM7778 preamp aimed at about 76 degree magnetic compass. Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html

Last edited by Electron; 31-Dec-2011 at 6:58 PM.
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Old 31-Dec-2011, 7:26 PM   #3
Dave Loudin
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Look at your TVFool report closely. You do not have line of sight to Mt. Wilson. Click on any of the stations from there to see the path profile. The antenna you have is really a UHF antenna. As you've guessed, you need an antenna with real gain in the VHF-hi band for 7, 9, 11, and 13. The YA-1713 should do nicely.

As far as your UHF reception goes, your results correspond nicely with the TVFool predictions. KTLA is the strongest, followed by KNBC, then KCBS way down the list. The 4228 is pretty good antenna, so simply replacing it with a 91-XG won't make enough difference. Try aiming the 4228 up some, maybe as much as 10 degrees. If that doesn't do the trick, then try moving the antenna up/down a couple feet or try a different mounting location.
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Old 31-Dec-2011, 7:46 PM   #4
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Your CM4228 is limited to reception of real UHF signals. As you read your TVFR, pay attention to the Real Channel column, not the virtual channels (antennas know nothing about virtual channels).

Your TVFR contradicts your description of a clear line of sight to Mt. Wilson. Example: KABC path profile and KCBS path profile

Your idea of using an XG-91 and YA1713 with your CM7778 is not overkill IMO. Adding the YA1713 high-VHF antenna should give you KABC, real CH-7, KTTV, real CH-11, KCOP, real CH-13 and KCAL, real CH-9. If you're not seeing KCBS, real CH-43 now, you'll need a better UHF antenna (the XG-91) and maybe higher mounting.

If KUHB, real CH-6 (an analog TBN translator) is of interest to you, a separate low-VHF antenna can be added. Otherwise I disagree with the suggestion of an all-channel antenna, particularly an antenna with less than maximum UHF performance, which you'll need to have a shot at KCBS.

PS. DL got his post in just ahead of mine... I think we are very close to agreeing on this one... KCBS is going to be the most challenging 'get' in this case. I'm hoping the superior directivity of the XG-91 and it's higher gain will be enough but you won't know until you try.
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If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)

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Last edited by GroundUrMast; 31-Dec-2011 at 7:54 PM. Reason: Ack. DL's post
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Old 1-Jan-2012, 1:05 AM   #5
Electron
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Tv antennas and Tv reception

Not close , dl says , The 4228 is a pretty good antenna , so simply replacing it with a 91-XG won't make enough diference. gum says that the 91-XG is better to use then 4228. And gum is also suggesting to use 3 antennas. . I recommend one antenna , a HD7084P that receives All the digital tv channels , 2 thru 6 , 7 thru 13 , 14 thru 69.
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Old 1-Jan-2012, 1:45 AM   #6
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My thought process in brief is, the OP has not been able to receive KCBS using the CM4228 and the UHF performance of the HD7084 is no better. KCBS is a stated goal, therefor my suggestion to use the most gain available in a consumer grade antenna and be prepared to experiment with location and altitude of the antenna.

Electron, you're entitled to your opinion. That I have a different opinion is not a slam or attack, just a different opinion.
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Old 1-Jan-2012, 1:56 PM   #7
No static at all
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I recommend the AD 91-XG / Antennacraft Y10-7-13 dual antenna combo. In deep fringe scenarios, this combo has worked best for me, besting the Winegard YA-1713 & especially the CM 4228.
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Old 2-Jan-2012, 12:05 AM   #8
rickcain
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I agree. I'm using a similar set up of a Y5713 and MXU-59 and have picked up the best reception I can achieve to date at my site with this paired setup. They're big and ugly but they get the job done.
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Old 3-Jan-2012, 6:04 PM   #9
Delucat2
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I now see that I am in a shadow area and need all I can get in terms of antenna.

I will get the 91XG or MXU59 and a Y10713.

These will get mounted on a 8' pole above my chimney, so they will be at about 30' off the ground.

This is big and ugly, but I watched the Rose Parade on KTLA in HD and it was spectacular!

Will advise when I get these assembled and installed.
Thank you!
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Old 4-Jan-2012, 4:49 AM   #10
sc2dave
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try this one ,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWQhlmJTMzw
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Old 4-Jan-2012, 5:23 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sc2dave View Post
I applaud your enthusiasm. In this case however, even the best, carefully built 4-bay antenna with reflector is not going to have the gain or directivity needed to achieve the OP's goals. (He has already tried the ganged iteration of the type shown in the youtube video.) The Youtube antenna has several known design deficiencies including sub-optimal element lengths.

There are a variety of DIY/Home-Built antennas out there. Some impressive work by several technically capable people have produced some very good designs which can be found over at digitalhome.ca. The DBGH could be a potential competitor to the commercially built antennas the OP has indicated interest in. But the predicted performance of the DIY antenna can be missed by an inexperienced builder.
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Last edited by GroundUrMast; 4-Jan-2012 at 5:45 AM.
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Old 4-Jan-2012, 5:44 AM   #12
sc2dave
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so what improvements can be made on this antenna? No big words,please.I'm new at this.,Thanks man.
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Old 4-Jan-2012, 12:17 PM   #13
Dave Loudin
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This website (http://m4antenna.eastmasonvilleweather.com/index.html) documents the best designs for homemade bowtie antennas. These designs are the results of testing and modeling of the antenna you built. PLEASE point people to that site instead of the YouTube video.
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