Inconsistent REception

[mhouston]

I have a Channel Master (CM-4228HD) 8 Bay HD antenna Designed for UHF/VHF reception from 174 to 216 MHz and 470 to 700 MHz chimney mount over the top of the chimney at approximately 25 feet above grade. I currently have it mounted stationary at 85 degrees. I have a preamplifier Winegard PS1403 Power Injector / Inserter for Pre-amp 18 Volt (PS-1403). From the antenna to the amp is approximately 25 feet I have a splitter to feed the main TV and another TV hooked up via coax approximately 40 feet.
My problem is the consistency of the tv reception. At times I can get 42 digital channels which come in very well at other times poor or no signal at all.
What is confusing is like last Sunday I wanted to watch NFL Football on channel 14.1 and the signal came and went. It seems that channel 7.1 remained constant which has the same transmitter. At times I can get channel WRAL 5.1 other times not consistently or not at all.
I want to drop satellite but I want to get a more consistent signal. What steps should I take? I am not sure since it comes and goes if it could be wind. This is an omnidirectional antenna would the strength improve with a Antenna Rotator System? I really like the signal when it comes in but it is aggravating when watching a football play and it comes in and out.Any help is appreciated.

[mhouston]

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[StephanieS]

Hello Mhouston,

A few things jump out of at me.

Before I begin, what signals do you wish to concentrate on? Raleigh? Greenville? Wilmington? Reorientating the antenna might be in order depending on which market you want to focus on. If you want flexibility of all of them, then a rotor becomes a discussion.

First, you have quite a few affiliates in different directions at your disposal. The preamp part # you provided is to a Winegard chromestar series preamp, but didn't specify which one. The part # was to a replacement power supply. In this situation, I'd be concerned with system overloading. If I were you, for testing purposes I'd remove the preamp from the line (both preamp and power inverter) and test reception to see if picture stabilizes. A 4228 ought to put plenty signal down 70' of coax to two TVs without a preamp. Without the preamp, orientate to magnetic 331 to gauge reception of Raleigh. This will confirm the 4228 is working well if you see the market's UHF signals with stability.

Additionally remove splitter if possible and test with lead coming straight off antenna into one TV.

The 4228 is a large UHF antenna designed to capture weak signals over a distance.

WRAL does not surprise me that it is hit/miss. It is substantially out of the 4228's beamwidth. Orientate 4228 to magnetic 331 to concentrate on Raleigh.

WYDO FOX RF 47 is at magnetic 73. With the 4228 at magnetic 85, you are nearing the outside of the 4228's reception beam.

Second, how is your line of sight around the antenna? Are you surrounded by trees?

Amplification with stronger signals present can actually degrade reception. First step is to establish if the antenna is fine by itself without the preamp so you have a stable performance baseline.

Then we take the next step which includes a discussion of high-VHF. You have an RF 10, 11 and 12 in your map. This requires a high-VHF (channels 7-13) specific antenna. Your 4228 is not designed to receive these.

Cheers.

[ADTech]

The Winegard PS1403 is a power supply for a preamplifier but is not a preamp. What amplifier is installed? If it's any of the AP-series, it's probably overloading.

The CM4228HD is far, far, far from being an omni-directional antenna. About the only thing MORE directional on UHF is a long UHF Yagi.

What specific channels are giving you problems? If they are not in the antenna's sweet spot, then reliable reception of them is not likely.

[mhouston]

StephanieS,

Thanks for the reply. I guess I may be greedy but I would like all of them due the the sports available on WRAL. Mostly the Greenville markets would probably satisfy most my viewing.
I did not install my antenna and amp but the part number I see has PS 1403 on it, but I am new to all of this and I want to understand how to set up my antenna for best reception.
To show my ignorance I don't understand the setting for WYDO RF 47 at 73 and with the direction at 85 being the outside of the reception beam. That seems closer to that station than witn which is 45 and seems to be stronger.
The line of site is pretty clear with minimal trees.
The coax that I used was one that I had to previous antenna which I did not install either so I am not totally sure about the coax .

[mhouston]

ADTech,

Thanks for the reply. Based on CM4228HD does that mean I should consider a rotor? Again I did not install this I am only able to see the power supply so I assume that a Winegard pre amp was used. I do not own a ladder to go up to the antenna to see the actual pre amp model I assumed that the installer bought them as a kit.

[StephanieS]

Ok. A rotor is something we can discuss after we stabilize reception.

As ADtech just mentioned, the 4228 isn't an antenna that picks up signals from a variety of directions. Documentation I find reports a 15 degree beamwidth of reception (or the main focal area of reception off the front). If magnetic 73 is WYDO FOX real channel (RF) 47 and you are at heading 85 you are 12 degrees off of WYDO. The 4228 works best when it is pointed right at the desired transmitter.

You are seeing the part # for power supply which isn't the same as the preamp part #. Though we've been able to figure out you have a winegard preamp.

Regarding your coax, with removal of the preamp and power inserter, we'll know pretty quickly if you are overloading. What you'll look for is stability in the Greenville signals if you don't change antenna orientation. If they stabilize, the culprit was likely overloading and your coax is fine.

[mhouston]

StephanieS,

Again thanks for the reply.

To check overloading can I simply just disconnect the power amp and go direct to the TV without disconnecting from the preamp on the outside or must both be disconnected?

Also to check for over loading if I want to pick up WRAL 5.1 due to the distance from the transmitting tower would I more than likely need a signal amplified even if I added a rotor to zone into the direction of the signal?

Thanks

[ADTech]

Both must be removed. If you only remove the power supply, the amp turns into a brick.

[StephanieS]

You must disconnect both the preamp from being inline and the power inverter.
We want the antenna coax to be directly connected from the antenna to the TV with nothing in-between (preamps, inverters, splitters).

My hunch is that with a rotor, you will recieve WRAL with the 4228 without the preamp. The 4228 has nice gain and WRAL's signal is strong enough for reliable reception. Your issue with WRAL and Raleigh is that you must be pointing that direction (magnetic 331) for best chance at reliable reception.

Due to the narrow beamwidth of the 4228, you will have to orientate it to the appropriate heading depending on what signals you want. One we establish stable reception, adding a rotor will give you ability to focus on each signal as you wish to watch them.

Also, I mentioned high-VHF. Do you want ABC WCTI (RF 12) Greenville, CBS WNCT (RF 10) Greenville and ABC WTVD (RF 11) from Raleigh? If so adding a high-VHF antenna to work in concert with your 4228 will likely yield you stable results of RF 10, 11 and 12. You may see them with the 4228, but results might be unstable due to the 4228 not being designed for high-VHF.

[mhouston]

Thank you. I was guessing that it would be necessary to disconnect both. Is there a way to measure the strength of the signal other than the picture comes in? I guess I wonder if the atmosphere conditions might impact the reception as I test either positively or negatively?

[mhouston]

I forgot to ask if I want to receive WRAL, WITN and WWAY for example should I consider another antenna than the one I have?

[StephanieS]

Check if your TV tuner has a a signal strength meter built in or shows bars indicating the signal strength.

My 39" samsung does not have a signal strength meter. However, my 24" sharp does.

[StephanieS]

All three are UHF broadcasts. With a rotor you would not need a second antenna for these stations. Your 4228 is designed for these channels.

A second antenna might recommended for ABC WCTI (RF 12) Greenville, CBS WNCT (RF 10) Greenville and ABC WTVD (RF 11) from Raleigh.

This is because they operate on a different band than UHF and what your 4228 is designed to receive. It will depend if you get lucky and your 4228 receives those high-VHF signals.

Rotors can be found here: http://www.solidsignal.com/cview.asp...nna%20Rotators. I'm not up on the best rotors with remotes, so I'll let other guide you there.

Originally Posted by mhouston

I forgot to ask if I want to receive WRAL, WITN and WWAY for example should I consider another antenna than the one I have?

[mhouston]

Is there a recommendation for the type of antenna to receive that band's signal ABC WCTI (RF 12) Greenville, CBS WNCT (RF 10) Greenville and ABC WTVD (RF 11) from Raleigh.
What do I look for on the chart to determine the bands an antenna can receive or designed to receive and then what do I look for in terms of the product specs.

[StephanieS]

Yup. The Antennacraft Y10-7-13: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=Y10-7-13

The antenna will say in the description whether it is for UHF, high-VHF, low-VHF or a combination of the three. For your reception purposes, low-VHF, we can ignore as there are no real channels 2-6 you need to try to receive.

If installing both antennas on the same mast, have them be separate by 4' on the same mast. Purchase a Antennas Direct EU385CF-1s combiner. This allows you to combine two antennas into one coax. Connect 4228 coax to UHF input, connect Y10-7-13 coax to VHF input. Run single coax from combiner into home.

Installing both antennas on the same mast I would have them be pointed in exactly the same direction. Once you get configured with rotor, both antennas can serve the same heading as you switch between markets. This will give you the tools to receive both UHF and high-VHF channels from each market.

Originally Posted by mhouston

Is there a recommendation for the type of antenna to receive that band's signal ABC WCTI (RF 12) Greenville, CBS WNCT (RF 10) Greenville and ABC WTVD (RF 11) from Raleigh.
What do I look for on the chart to determine the bands an antenna can receive or designed to receive and then what do I look for in terms of the product specs.

[mhouston]

Thank you for all of your help.

[StephanieS]

No problem. Glad to help out rather than have someone pulling their hair out and writing irritated reviews on amazon.com!

I'll further add, with the CM 4228 and a Y10-7-13 working together on a rotor, you will have an excellent over the air set up capable of reception of many channels. With the rotor, you'll run the pants off people who have a single fixed antenna.

You'll likely find also, you don't need a preamp to achieve the reception you want.

Let us know on your progress!

[mhouston]

Stephanie
This is all very interesting. I guess to recap. What I need to first do is to disconnect my pre amp and power supply adjust the antenna to see if I am getting too much signal overload. If that works well then perhaps consider a rotor to dial in the signal. Then consider an additional antenna to pick up the Hi-V signal.

I am able with the antenna I have now able to pick up ABC WCTI (RF 12) Greenville, CBS WNCT (RF 10) Greenville so it might not be necessary for the Hi-V or will the additional antenna pick up these channels even better?

[StephanieS]

Originally Posted by mhouston

What I need to first do is to disconnect my pre amp and power supply adjust the antenna to see if I am getting too much signal overload.

Yes, remove those items. You want a direct line of coax from antenna to TV. For testing purposes, I would point your antenna to magnetic 331 to use Raleigh as your test cluster. Why? Raleigh has its signals mostly on one heading and they are weaker then some of the other closer signals. The 4228 ought to lock on most if not all of them. They are good barometer if the 4228 is functioning properly.

Once you have this ready for testing, perform a channel scan on your TV.

I would leave antenna in this configuration for a day or two while watching Raleigh broadcasts to determine if your drop outs and inconsistent reception stops.

Originally Posted by mhouston

If that works well then perhaps consider a rotor to dial in the signal.

Yes. Your 4228 will need a rotor if you want be able to receive the three markets with the highest chance of reliability. Relying on signals off the side or the back of the 4228 is a recipe for drop outs and such. Remember, the 4228 works best with the signals you want off the front in a 15 degree beamwidth.

Originally Posted by mhouston

Then consider an additional antenna to pick up the Hi-V signal.

I am able with the antenna I have now able to pick up ABC WCTI (RF 12) Greenville, CBS WNCT (RF 10) Greenville so it might not be necessary for the Hi-V or will the additional antenna pick up these channels even better?

Sounds like you are lucky with the two mentioned high-VHFs. Those two put a good signal at your location.. You may decide the RF 11 from Raleigh isn't worth the hassle and the need for a high-VHF beam and antenna combiner becomes moot.