Need antenna upgrade suggestion in Portland, OR

[tjsully21]

Hello,

I recently dumped directv and got the antenna out of storage. It's a Winegard SS-1000, coupled with a Channel Master 7777 preamp. I originally purchased them in 2007.

The run is about 30-40 feet, split 3 ways.

All of the stations I want to receive are grouped together on about a 312 heading, 13 miles.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...46ae3300fbce7b

I'm in a river valley, so terrain and trees are an issue. There are also 2 birch trees about 30 feet away that are partially blocking the signals.

I'm getting fairly decent reception on most channels. The SS-1000 is designed as UHF-only, but does ok with 3 high-VHF stations. The channel I have the most trouble receiving is 43. Go figure. I'm hoping a stronger antenna will provide better and more consistent reception. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

[GroundUrMast]

I have to wonder if the CM-7777 is at the edge of overloading. It's a weak signal preamplifier and your report indicates plenty of strong line of site signals.

Have your tried removing the amplifier and it's power supply?

If I was starting from scratch, I would consider an Antennacraft HD1200, or Channel Master CM-3018 and no preamplifier. If needed, a Channel Master CM-3410 distribution amplifier could be inserted between the antenna and splitter. http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=13646

[tjsully21]

Without the preamp I get pretty much nothing. I'm not sure the line of sight signals are as strong as the report indicates due to low elevation, terrain and trees.

What do you mean when you say the CM-7777 is at the edge of overloading? Could it actually degrade reception? Now that I think about it, I bypassed the power supply, but forgot to bypass the preamp. I'll try it tomorrow and verify. Thanks.

[GroundUrMast]

Could it actually degrade reception?

Yes, there's a limit to how strong the signal can be as it enters the amplifier. If too strong, one or more signal will be distorted which interferes with the reliable reception of that signal and in some cases, other signals can be affected also.

To test reception without the amplifier, both the power unit and the mast-head unit must be out of the circuit.

If the signal levels are as strong as shown on your report, the CM-7777 would not be the correct amplifier to use. If you truly needed any amplifier at all, it should be capable of handling strong input signal levels.

The trees you've mentioned are a concern. A chainsaw is an effective solution if it's not going to create legal consequences. They attenuate signal levels to some degree, but that's not the primary issue in most cases. Your report indicates that there's plenty of signal strength, enough to overcome quite a bit of simple attenuation. The more significant issue for most folks with trees in the way is that signal fluctuations caused by moving limbs and foliage causes the tuner to loose lock momentarily as it adjusts itself the the constant changes in signal level and phase caused by the movement of the vegetation. If you have no way to avoid the trees, try a larger antenna. That said, I haven't heard you describe moving foliage symptoms specifically, unless you've inferred or implied it with the phrase, "...fairly decent reception...".

(I'm surrounded by Douglas Fir and Western Red Cedar in excess of 100', with signal levels quite similar to those shown on your report. When the wind blows, some channels are prone to intermittent visual and audible impairments. I'm using the largest available antennas, which has helped to improve the situation though not eliminate the problem entirely. I'm still experimenting with mounting options in excess of 80 feet AGL.)

[tjsully21]

This morning I bypassed the preamp and power supply and got decent reception on some channels. I didn't have much time to check it out, but a few channels were a little weak. The tv with the longest run had the weakest signals.

When I have more time, I'm going to do a more thorough comparison with/without amp just for my satisfaction. I'm also going to move it back to my preferred location on the old satellite dish mount for comparison to see how it does now without the amp. I moved it a few weeks ago to a metal vent pipe to get out from behind the birch trees, but that required an extra 40 foot run across the roof, which I'm not crazy about.

Unfortunately the birch trees aren't coming down any time soon. I agree that a bigger antenna should handle the attenuation, but now that you mention it, I've also noticed some signal fluctuations, especially with the stormy weather lately.

By the way, thanks, I didn't realize I was using the wrong amplifier. I bought it in 2007 on the recommendation of someone at Warren Electronics. At the time I lived in a house in the same neighborhood but put the antenna in the attic. I assume it was bad advice for that situation as well?

[GroundUrMast]

I probably would have suggested a CM-7778 at that time.

The RCA TVPRAMP1R is remarkably tolerant of strong signals and seems to have decent noise/distortion performance as well. It's price is very attractive also. I can recommend it in good conscience, with only one caveat, there have been reports of bad switches used to select trap and combiner settings. Buy from a source with an acceptable return/exchange policy.

The RCA and other amplifiers should have no problem 'pushing' the signals through the extra 40' of coax... that's the preamp's job. (No amplifier improves the performance of the antenna.)

[tjsully21]

GroundUrMast,

I tested a couple different locations with and without the CM-7777. It improved signal strength on several channels, on the rest it didn't make much difference. I also did the Basic A-B-C test with the shortest run. There the amp made little difference.

I took a look at the antennas you mentioned - Antennacraft HD1200 and Channel Master CM-3018. I'm sure either would suffice, but I have serious doubts that the wife will agree to a 9 foot antenna on the roof. Any suggestions for one with a smaller footprint that you think might work?

If I end up needing a distribution amp, so I'll probably go with the CM-3410 like you suggested.

Thanks again.

[ADTech]

There's no need for a low-VHF antenna. The only TV station on low-VHF is a redundant translator for KRCW which has it's primary broadcast on UHF 33.

I've found that moving a UHF antenna in small increments (6-12") often solves such single channel problems, especially when the signal is compromised by terrain or trees. You might find that you can move the antenna and fix that channel but another drops out. Be patient and continue with the probing for a good site to see if you can find a spot where everything is happy.

[GroundUrMast]

If you exhaust all options with the SS-1000, and need to switch to a different antenna...

I would still want to recommend you step up the UHF performance relative to the SS-1000. The following will all have improved UHF and H-VHF capability but lack the wide elements for L-VHF.

Channel Master's CM-2020
Antennacraft HBU-33 and larger
Winegard HD-7694P

Antennas Direct CS2 or CS4 or DB2e or DB4e + CS5 or (Antennacraft Y5713 + UVSJ)

Perhaps from an esthetics perspective, the combination of a CS2 & CS5 would be the smallest foot print.

[tjsully21]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm leaning towards the 7694-P. Before I pull the trigger, though, I was wondering if you have an opinion on the CM-4228.

[ADTech]

I'd just go with a small U/v combo antenna. We'd recommend a C2V every day of the week for your local stuff based on your TVFool plot. No amp is needed nor should one be used.

The Channel Master CM4228HD antenna is a excelent antenna for your reception location.

Install the antenna above the roof in such a manner that the CM4228HD antenna has unobstructed view that is not impeded blocked by the roof and building in the directions of , North West and North East.

Aim the CM4228HD antenna at about 317 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html

Use a Real and Actual magnetic compass to aim antenna.

-----------

A antenna system amplifier is not required.

---------

Digital Tv Tuners can develop - Digital Glitches - that are not cleared out with simple channel scans.

Do Double Rescan , www.wcshtv.com/DoubleReScanAlert.pdf

[GroundUrMast]

The CM-4228 would be a very significant step up in UHF performance. It's not clear if it would offer the same H-VHF capability that you've already got. Channel Master does not publish a H-VHF gain figure for the 4228.

If mounted outdoors, it may do the job.

So as to reduce reception and distribution problems.

Disconnect and Remove and Discard All satellite passive and active components such as and not limited to , multi-switches , multi-plexers , splitters , couplers , amplifiers , power injectors , power supplies, and etc. .

Yes the satellite system coaxes and other coaxes that are in/on the building can be used for the antenna system.

--------

The Winegard DS3000 , J pole type antenna mount works Ok as a mount for the CM4228HD antenna.

Here are some more antenna mounts.

www.ronard.com/909911.html
Use the , ronard(911) , 5 foot tripod antenna mount.

www.ronard.com/34424560.html
Use the , ronard(4560) , eave antenna mount.

www.ronard.com/ychim.html
Measure around the chimney and use a , ronard(2212) , ronard(2218) , ronard(2224) .

Buy the ronard antenna mounts at , www.solidsignal.com , by typing , ronard(x) , in the solidsignal search box or buy from , www.ronard.com

--------

Here are some places to buy antennas and etc. .

www.solidsignal.com

www.amazon.com

www.channelmasterstore.com

www.winegarddirect.com

www.ronard.com

The , www.channelmasterstore.com , web site for the CM4228HD , Technical Specifications , shows that the average gain is 5 dB for VHF high band channels 7 thru 13.

And 12 dB average gain for UHF channels 14 thru 51.

This is plenty of antenna gain for reception location.

The CM4228HD antenna is designed to receive the UHF channels 14 thru 51 and VHF high band channels 7 thru 13.

Your location has strong signal strength receivable Tv channels in the UHF and VHF high band.

This independent review was done to discover the truth about the CM4228HD and other antennas.

The simple truthful statement at the end of technical part , Is what is important to know.

The CM4228HD antenna is designed to receive the VHF high band of channels 7 thru 13 and does a good job of receiving the VHF high band channels.

http://www.antennahacks.com/Comparis...F_Shootout.htm

[tjsully21]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm now receiving channel 43 with no problem, but channel 10 is a little weak. I just realized that after moving the antenna around a few times and now back where I started, it's actually about 6-12" from the original position. I'll play around with tweaking the position a little more, but I'm pretty sure I still want to upgrade the UHF and H-VHF capability. I agree that I don't need low-VHF.

I'm using the old satellite mount and RG6 cable run, but everything else satellite-related has been disconnected.

Install the SS1000 or any other antenna above the peak of the roof in such a manner that the roof and building are not , obstructing , impeding , blocking reception in the directions of reception.

As Always, trees and tree leaves , plants and plant leaves , have a Negative Effect on Broadcast Tv Reception.

Absorbing and Blocking reception

Multi-path reflecting Tv signals bouncing around

The Best Pratice is to install a Tv antenna at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception including your own roof and building.

---------

As has been stated , the CM7777 is to high of gain amplification for your location , the Tv signals reception is very strong at your location.

The amplifier can over load from the strong signal strengths and make reception worse.

Please locate the SS1000 antenna or any other antenna to a better reception location.

And correct wiring problems.

[tjsully21]

Speaking of antenna location, another possibility is mounting it on the chimney - less obstruction from trees. My distribution panel is next to the chimney in the basement. I'm hesitant to mention this, but the shortest run would be through an unused chimney flu. I'm very skeptical about the idea and wouldn't do it unless convinced that it's safe. Am I right that it's just a crazy idea, or is there a way to do it?

Yes a unused chimney flu is a Ok way to run the coax.