Sutro Tower upgrade, FCC changes

[Ray]

Right now I have a combined AD 91XG and Winegard high VHF Yagi, and my reception is pretty good, but I'm over 100 miles from any transmitter, and sometimes it could be a little better. So I've been thinking about an antenna upgrade, maybe in the fall when I'll have more free time (I hope) and it won't be so hot up on the roof.

Anyway, the TV was on a couple of weeks ago when I heard an announcement about an upcoming upgrade to the Sutro Tower (San Francisco) antennas. I wasn't really watching and only caught a bit of it, but I think they said that it would improve reception. Does anyone know about this?

I did a little looking and haven't found much yet, except for an article in the San Francisco Chronicle, which also mentioned that the UHF band will end at channel 37. I hadn't heard about this until now. Does anyone know when this will take effect, and do you think that this will affect antenna design, with new models coming out? Should I wait on a new antenna until the frequency change is complete?

[rabbit73]

The channel changes are the result of UHF Repack. The FCC has given TV channels 38 to 51 to the cellular companies. UHF TV is now 14-36; 37 is reserved for radio astronomy.

Where are you located? I don't see your old 18 ft TVFool report; it is no longer on the server.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...1dda402203a344

This is your previous thread:
I'd like to do a little better on UHF

http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=13185

[Ray]

Thanks, @rabbit73. (Does the @ sign work here to notify someone?) So UHF (for broadcast TV) ends at 36, not 37. I'm in Sonora, California, in the Sierra Nevada foothills. I'm fortunate to be at an elevation (2800 feet) that helps with curvature of the earth.

Edit: I think that there are actually transmitters closer than 100 miles, but I don't receive any that are closer than 100 miles with the way my antennas are oriented. The Sacramento stations don't work so well for me, I think because of terrain.

[ADTech]

Potentially useful resources:


http://sutrotower.com See the section regarding the repacking plan

http://www.larrykenney.com/ Has several sections related to SF broadcasting and Sutro
http://www.aa6g.org/DTV/index.html Chuck is an enthusiast on the deep fringe of SF reception.


There are only certain antenna designs that lend themselves to gaining much benefit from a re-design following the repack which completes in two years. As best, one might eke out a dB or 2 (probably less) of improved performance from any tweaking. Existing antennas would still work the same as before, pretty much like your current car still works the same as before even though the newest models might offer more torque or horsepower.


FWIW, many of our competitors are still selling their pre-2009 models since they never upgraded any of them. Only our legacy DB8 (out of production for a while) and the 91XG (very low volume) are pre-2009 designs.


Before it is is asked, I have no shareable information regarding future plans of my employer.

[rabbit73]

These are the changes for San Francisco:
https://www.rabbitears.info/repackch...=&lss=&status=

Most of the changes will be during phase 8 or 9.

https://www.fcc.gov/about-fcc/fcc-in...ition-schedule

https://www.commlawcenter.com/2017/0...deadlines.html

(Does the @ sign work here to notify someone?)

No, there isn't even a moderator now. This site has a very small staff, and it is difficult for them to keep the database used to generate the reports up to date.

[Ray]

Thanks ADTech and rabbit73. I'll have a look at the links.

[rabbit73]

This is a report for Sonora; I hope the report for your actual location looks better than this:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...90381975e88d71

[Nascarken]

Hello there i would not mess with your antennas becuse the ANTENNA's Direct 91xg
Whether it's one or 2,91XG stacked side by side,with a channel master amp will get you
Out of the wood'S and maybe add an OTHER 10ft up with a channel master,7777,AMP
Lol and it should improve your receive of channel's but if I was you!! I would wate
Till the repackaging of channel's are dun and ATSC03,tacks off with IT'S strong signals
Of broadcasting tower's and teck!! Give up on That hi price Db8.junk.lol

[JoeAZ]

Originally Posted by Ray

Thanks, @rabbit73. (Does the @ sign work here to notify someone?) So UHF (for broadcast TV) ends at 36, not 37. I'm in Sonora, California, in the Sierra Nevada foothills. I'm fortunate to be at an elevation (2800 feet) that helps with curvature of the earth.

Edit: I think that there are actually transmitters closer than 100 miles, but I don't receive any that are closer than 100 miles with the way my antennas are oriented. The Sacramento stations don't work so well for me, I think because of terrain.

Both Rabbit and ADTech have given you good and useful
information. Good, consistent reception at your distances is rare.
It may not be reasonably possible to improve your reception
without a major expenditure.

[Ray]

My questions have basically been answered about the repack and I learned a little about ATSC 3.0, which I hadn't heard about. Thanks to all. Some very good information and links.

I have regenerated the 18 foot TVFool report referenced in my earlier thread:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9038d7a33813dc

And since I actually get and watch channels that are not in the 18 foot report, here is the 25 foot report referenced in my earlier thread:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...90380fcab7919d

I's hard to resist taking a gamble on the AD DB8e in spite of what people say, but I will try to wait for the repack and and ATSC 3.0 before I do anything. The DB4e works very well for my son, and he's only 3 miles away. However, he has a somewhat better location and can get Sacramento easily.

My situation would not easily allow for 10 more feet of mast. I did try temporarily a few more feet, maybe 4 or so, but didn't notice much difference.

If I don't succeed in waiting and try something before the repack and ATSC 3.0, I'll post here and let people know how it went.

[Nascarken]

Well Ray the Db8& the 91XG are both uhf only? But if you are looking too get all the
CHANNEL'S frum the low band VHF/HI/VHF&UHF Fcc suggests that a good combow hi&low band VHF/UHF outdoor tv antenna is needed LIKE the Winegrud 8200u.
With a channel master 7777AMP and the higth of what your antenna is know
Will work well for the 8200u.You will get even a bigger wow.put the 8200u into
Your Tv Fool report and see what you get&the same higth with the added 4ft.With the
Channel master,7777amp,,let me know what the report said well good luck!!!

[rabbit73]

Originally Posted by Ray

My questions have basically been answered about the repack and I learned a little about ATSC 3.0, which I hadn't heard about. Thanks to all. Some very good information and links.

I have regenerated the 18 foot TVFool report referenced in my earlier thread:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9038d7a33813dc

And since I actually get and watch channels that are not in the 18 foot report, here is the 25 foot report referenced in my earlier thread:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...90380fcab7919d

I's hard to resist taking a gamble on the AD DB8e in spite of what people say, but I will try to wait for the repack and and ATSC 3.0 before I do anything. The DB4e works very well for my son, and he's only 3 miles away. However, he has a somewhat better location and can get Sacramento easily.

My situation would not easily allow for 10 more feet of mast. I did try temporarily a few more feet, maybe 4 or so, but didn't notice much difference.

If I don't succeed in waiting and try something before the repack and ATSC 3.0, I'll post here and let people know how it went.

Thank you for the report; it does look better than a generic Sonora report. I suspect you are down a hill a little, but your son has more elevation.

[Ray]

I've recently been having problems with some of the UHF stations broadcasting from Sutro Tower, in particular KQED, and was having a hard time trying to figure out what might have broken.

I eventually ran into the following: https://ww2.kqed.org/transmitterstat...he-air-issues/

We are aware that some over-the-air viewers are experiencing issues receiving the KQED 9 and KQED Plus signals from Sutro Tower. This issue is likely being caused by technical work to Sutro Tower that is being performed by their engineers. During the course of this maintenance, the signal is being broadcast at half strength during weekdays and at full power on the weekends. This maintenance may last through the end of December. We are sorry for any inconvenience this may cause. Please return to this page for progress updates.

I would guess that this relates to the repack.

Just wanted to document this somewhere, since it might be useful to someone.

On another note, I just put up a DB8e to replace the 91XG. I can't tell yet whether I'm getting better performance, since I've only had it up for a day, and the signal currently kind of varies with the way you hold your mouth. I tried an A/B switch to switch between antennas with them both on the mast, but it was hard to tell, because I didn't have the DB8e optimally positioned.

[ckwsp101_tv]

Bunch of work being done on Sutro Tower.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-lo...l#post58770688

Many stations using Aux antenna.

[Ray]

Thanks! Interesting reading.