Help with HDB8X antenna

[MrBruce]

First, here is my TVFool report.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b94821193f1d4

I have the following HDB8X antenna.

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=HDB8X&ss=38724

I have the antenna pointed towards 288 degrees True North, the direction of WTIC 31 real, WVIT 35 Real, WEDH 45 Real and WCCT 20 Real.

My attempt is to receive WFSB 33 Real, which is at 296 degrees of True North.

This antenna is designed to be pointed in two different compos directions at the same time.

At the moment, I have both sections pointed in the same basic direction, and although WVIT, WTIC, WEDH and WCCT come in, WFSB does not, this is basically because WFSB's broadcast tower is further north in the Farmington CT. area than WVIT.

Now my question is this, when aiming the two separate sections of the HDB8X, which angle is better? Positioning it so the top view of the "V' is set so both sections are facing each other or set so both sections are looking away from each other?

I have to set this thing up ahead of time because my antenna is on a 60 foot mast pipe on my roof and gaining access to the antenna once it is up there is not possible since I can not climb the poll.

Also has anyone else out there used this antenna and if so how do you feel about its performance?

Thanks in advance.

Bruce.

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The tvfool report says 210 feet above ground and you say the antenna is 60 feet above the roof.

That means from the ground to the roof is 150 feet.

What type and kind of building is the building??

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Do not delete the 210 feet tvfool report, and make and post 3 more tvfool reports. 25 feet , 40 feet , 60 feet , above ground.

[GroundUrMast]

If the two panels are to face different directions, the lines of aim, from the antenna sections to the transmitting towers, should not cross.

Keep in mind, that when the two sections of the antenna face the same direction, the antenna provides maximum gain and has a narrow forward beam (it's more directional). However, as the panels are aimed in dissimilar directions, the gain and directivity is reduced.

[MrBruce]

Originally Posted by teleview

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The tvfool report says 210 feet above ground and you say the antenna is 60 feet above the roof.

That means from the ground to the roof is 150 feet.

What type and kind of building is the building??

The 210 Feet is the ground elevation of my location above sea level, plus roof and mast length all added together. Equals 210.

Bruce.

[ADTech]

Originally Posted by MrBruce

The 210 Feet is the ground elevation of my location above sea level, plus roof and mast length all added together. Equals 210.

Bruce.

It doesn't work that way. Use the elevation above the ground.

[GroundUrMast]

For example, I have a 14' high roof peak, and a tripod + mast that goes up another 12'... I would use an antenna height of 26' when generating a report. That I'm over 400' above sea level is irrelevant.

[MrBruce]

Originally Posted by ADTech

It doesn't work that way. Use the elevation above the ground.

Hello, the problem with that is the charts do not relate to my current location and signal strengths.

Here is one with 60 Feet above ground.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b94cd2a0ee2b2

First of all, ground level here is a tough call, my house is built into a hill. The front yard is a slanted hill, while the back of the house is partially in the ground and the back yard is higher then the front yard by roughly 10 feet, so which elevation would I use? Front or back elevation?

Second, TVFool does not work correctly if I use 60 Feet above ground, it lists stations that are full time 70% signal strength stations (Using a homemade coat hanger 4 bay antenna outside on the roof) as being tropo to edge2.

WBZ-TV 30 real Boston, MA and WGBH-TV 19 Real Boston, MA come in at 70 to 75% signal strength 90% of the time and WUNI 29 Real, from Worchester MA is listed as 2edge, however it comes in here at 80% signal strength 100% of the time not using any type of signal amp. Those are only a few examples.

I did both examples at my current street address.

The magic number 210 feet is the only number I found works best in this application for accuracy.

Bruce.

[ADTech]

TVFool uses the 3 arc-second resolution STRM database so the terrain elevation is effectively averaged into 90 meter square blocks. Since your location is so sharply changing, the elevation data is so imprecise than it has become little more than a SWAG.

Bottom line is that the LRI modelling will not be very useful for your specific circumstance.

[MrBruce]

Yeah, the city of Norwich here in Connecticut is one of the most hilliest areas in the state.
That is a true understatement. The Thames River travels up from Long Island Sound and is the lowest elevation in the area. Other than that, the overall landmass here is nothing but hills and valleys. Of course I am not on the highest elevation, however as for signals coming from Providence R.I and Boston MA I have a good 20 miles of unobstructed visibility in that direction. As for Hartford CT. the hill I am on slants upward in that direction, so the houses in that direction are on a higher landmass. My HDB8X is on a much taller mast than my Providence/Boston antennas, because I am attempting to over shoot a house, that is about 300 feet away, but is close enough to reflect the strong signals from the north-east Providence/Boston, specially if skip is active in the UHF band.

Has anyone out there used the HDB8X, is it better to have the elements flat or angled in as they are?

Should I keep both sections square to one another or should I angle them a bit to cover the locations of WFSB and WTIC, WCCT, WVIT, WEDH, etc.? As I said, WFSB's tower is several miles north of the other four.

Bruce.

[StephanieS]

Hi Mr. Bruce,

Keeping the HDB8X's panels pointed in unison to the same direction allows the antenna to work its gain as much as possible. I would keep both panels as they are. Further, WFSB being 8 degrees off is still within your beamwith. Generally on this design, you get about 15 degrees of play if the panels are orientated in the same direction, which you are well within.

As for CBS WFSB. When you start to get below 6 to 7 db in field strength signals especially in 2-edge situations can be extremely fickle and may not show up at all. I would actually suggest for CBS coverage you add a second antenna, an antennacraft Y10-7-13 high-vhf beam and orientate it to magnetic heading 73 to catch WPRI-TV CBS. http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...-7-13&ss=41195

This would require a antenna combiner. The Antennas Direct EU385CF-1s is a quality unit that allows you to combine high-vhf and UHF separate antennas into one coax lead heading into your home. http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...CF-1S&ss=41192

ABC network coverage is in the category of "maybe." This is due to co-channel interference. Under normal circumstances WTNH RF 10 would have a reasonable chance of being reliable. However WTNH's strength is at 13.7 db while you have WWDP RF 10 at -13.7db. This could be enough to for both channels to cancel each other out. Or, you might get lucky. It's just one of those situations you have to get something in the air and test. ABC WLNE is weaker and also suffers from potential co-channel interference as well. WLNE likely would not be received reliably.

You can attempt ABC coverage if it is more important than CBS, by orientating Y10-7-13 to magnetic heading 276.

As I see your situation summary:
HDB8X Magnetic 303: FOX (WTIC), PBS (WEDH), NBC (WVIT)
Y10-7-13 Magnetic 73: CBS (WPRI), FOX (WNAC)

You may do better, however just off your TVfool plot, this is what my expectation going in would be.

SS

[MrBruce]

Hello StephanieS and thanks for your reply.

I have four fixed antennas on my roof. One is a home made 4 bay pointed towards Boston, MA, the next is a home made 4 bay pointed towards Providence, R.I. These two antennas are designed to pull in VHF high and UHF, because the whiskers are longer and spaced further apart then a UHF only antenna. This providence antenna brings in WLNE 49 real, WJAR 51 real, WPRI 13 real, WNAC 12 real, WLWC 22 real, WRIW 50 Real, WSBE 21 real, WPXQ 17 real. WWDP Real 10, does not come in since I removed my VHF high only antenna out of service, but used to come in when I did have it in service.

WTNH 10 real, you can forget about that one, no one in eastern Connecticut can get that station since it went digital, before that when it was on VHF channel 8, it came in here pretty good.

I rely on WLNE from Providence, R.I. for ABC, WPRI for CBS. WFSB has come in here, but there is a very critical area where their signal is viewable for me. For instance, moving the antenna 15 feet to the north of its current location, WFSB comes in better, I am not 100% sure of this, but I do have a house, whose roof area is equal to my antenna height in the direction of Farmington, CT. I have used Google Earth to draw a line between my receiving antenna and the tower of WFSB in Farmington, the line passes over this house in question, I have been attempting to raise my antenna above this house, however, it is still tough, without climbing the poll to tell if I have finally over towered this guy's house.
I know they occupy their attic area as a living space, evidence is sky light windows in the roof always being lit with lighting.

The other Farmington towers such as WTIC are right behind this house, however, their RF power is a lot stronger so they easily pass right through the house. I only have issues with co-channel interference of WCCT Hartford CT and WCVB Boston, MA both on CH 20 real and WTIC Hartford, CT and WFXT Boston, MA both on CH 31 real. This is when the skip is running high in the UHF band. However, WVIT 35 real is never effected by tropo here because there is no other RF CH 35 station in this area.

As for CH 33 RF, WFSB and WCBS New York City would never be an issue here, because WCBS is too far away to ever cause issues here. Not like it did when it was on VHF channel 2 in the analog days. My reason for having the Connecticut TV stations come in is mostly for the local news and weather, I currently rely on WVIT and WTIC for such, but would like to add WFSB to my line up.

WTNH, from what I've read is almost impossible for a lot of people in Connecticut to get now. I realize they are still in the VHF band, but they must have either lowered their power or changed their signal direction, because they are no longer receivable in a lot of areas they once served.

Bruce.