Antenna advice needed: HIGH and LOW NM(db), Pwr(dbm) -Strong@4.6 miles,weak @30 miles

WeAreNotAlone · 26-Mar-2011, 5:59 AM

Interactive (Exact location) TVFOOL report:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...8d174fa24f04f0

Antenna selection advice needed: HIGH and LOW NM(db), Pwr(dbm) -weak stations (30 miles,1st Edge) about 180 degrees opposite strong (4.6 miles, LOS)

Appox 3 months a ago (January) replaced a huge worn-out 20yr old Vhf/Uhf OTA antenna due to age/damage unit had sustained over the years from falling tree limbs.
(Hugh old oak tree over house)

(Old antenna was not 100% of course but wife for sure is not impressed with RCA ANT751 that was recommended on another board- so while leafy vegetation is a factor, it's not all a case of installing in dead of winter and getting perfect reception and once leaves appear reception dropping.)

*****************

House: 1930's, wood frame, asphalt shingles... with aluminum (yuk) siding
Hugh old oak tree over house- Limbs /branches leafy sections 10+ft above antenna.
Clear shot to stations located to S.E. (@225 degrees)
Trunk of oak tree just about in line with stations 60.1, 44.1 (Right outside of house -28ft from antenna.)
Oak tree =percentage of leaves/vegetation showing= 35% (Leaves coming back)
Airport to North 2-3 miles, flightpath does not go over stations to SE 4.6 miles (225 degrees). Do have small planes fly directly overhead sometimes but do not notice signal loss 99.99% of time. 44.1 (ION), 60.1 in flight path.

New RCA ANT751 mounted at around 15ft- so it sees over roof-line.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0024R4B5C

Using 75-ohm balum packaged with ANT751.
Antenna mast is 2-inch water pipe cemented into fence pipe. Currently no bracketing at roof edge so pipe/antenna sways during windy weather.
Antenna mast appox 4ft from 1930's stone chimney= ANT751 itself appx 4 ft above chimney
New RG6 with compression fittings running into basement to (old) grounding block- then new RG6 to (1) new HDTV via it's built in ASTC tuner.
Length of RG6 run: 25ft to grounding block, 12ft to HDTV. I have tried splitting signal to DTVPal Plus converter box thinking reception problems are due to high signal strengths causing signal overload.
(Have been unable to use PC-based media center with (2) Silicon Dust HDHomeRun tuners- for a total of 4 PC tuners which really makes wifey unhappy..)

RCA ANT751 is currently pointed @ appox 45 degrees, (towards weak stations) backside picking up stations 4.6 miles away.

RCA ANT751 is not tuned for Vhf-Low- but Vhf-low 6 (23.1) @4.6 miles LOS with a db 79.2, dbm -11.7 comes in surprisingly well.

Desired channels- All down to 44.1 (ION), minus :
20 (34.1)
18 (17.1) CW -repeat of 21.1 CW
33 (33.1)- ABC repeat of 9 (40.1) ABC

Most problematic channels wifey is reporting- which may be incomplete:

*WBRC**50*(6.1)Fox4.1*LOS*74.8

*WABM-DT**36*(68.1)MyN4.6*LOS*70.8

WTJP-TV**26*(60.1)Ind26.2*1Edge*41.6*

Rain/bad weather affecting 60.1 and 44.1 (ION) of course...

Any and all suggestions welcome. Next couple of days hope to get on roof and try pointing towards strong stations (4.6 miles) to see if they behave and maybe swap out 75-ohm balum at antenna /grounding block.
.

WeAreNotAlone · 27-Mar-2011, 3:59 AM

RCA ANT751 (was) pointed @ appox 45 degrees, (towards weak stations) backside picking up stations 4.6 miles away.
(This causing loss of signal)

Repointed antenna towards 4.6 mile stations @225- So far so good but lost 44.1 (ION), 60.1 sometimes comes in but is unstable.

Big old oak tree(s):

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

GroundUrMast · 27-Mar-2011, 5:12 AM

To make sure we all understand...

You now have all the channels you want except WPXH (real CH-45) and WTJP (real CH-26). Yes?

And, the network attached tuners are seeing usable signals with the above exceptions. Yes?

Do you care about real CH-7 or CH-9?

WeAreNotAlone · 27-Mar-2011, 8:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GroundUrMast

To make sure we all understand...

You now have all the channels you want except WPXH (real CH-45) and WTJP (real CH-26). Yes?

Re: You now have all the channels you want except WPXH (real CH-45) and WTJP (real CH-26). Yes?

YES.

WPXH (real CH-45, 44.1 ION 1st edge@29.7 miles, 33 degrees) and WTJP (real CH-26, 60.1 Ind, 1st Edge@26.2 miles, 42 degrees) have alot of good stuff- so need a solution for them.

(With the RCA ANT751 pointed towards 225 degrees the only channel that might be iffy is ABC 33/40 (real ch-33) 33.1 (@39.2miles out @265 degrees) which is also broadcast on (real ch-9) (virtual channel 40.1 @ 20 miles)

Quote:

And, the network attached tuners are seeing usable signals with the above exceptions. Yes?

The Silicon Dust HDHomeRun tuners have NOT been tested with the RCA ANT751 pointed towards the strong stations coming from 225 degrees (4.6 miles).

(IIRC, In the past when I had the HDHomeRun tuners connected (thru the old antenna- and maybe thru the RCA ANT751 pointed AWAY from 225 degrees) they were "picky" about having a good signal fed to them and were pretty much UNUSABLE.- so they haven't been hooked up in a while. With that said the computer used as a media center was originally running MCE_2005- and due to a failed HD I was going thru codec hell. Before the ASTC change-over via the computers built in analogue tuner tuner worked PERFECT. Upgraded various components, migrated to Win7 which got rid of the codec issues- bought a totally new machine-still problems.... Now with a brand-new antenna/cabling it *should work.)

The only devices connected currently are the HDTV sets built-in ASTC OTA TUNER and a Dish/Echostar DTVPal Plus OTA SD 480i tuner box.The DTVPal's main function is it has a "GUIDE" showing upcoming shows.

Getting the network attached HDHomeRun tuners (2- each having 2 tuners- for a total of 4 tuners) is a major concern so A: content can be recorded and viewed later, and B: So we will have a GUIDE again....C: Be able to view on other devices

*Note the SilconDust HDHomeRun tuners do NOT have internal bridge /splitter- Each tuner has a separate input.

Additionally I would like to distribute the signal to Kitchen, other rooms in the house. Currently the house has NO distribution network.

Do you care about real CH-7 or CH-9?

CH-7 No, and CH-9 *No...

CH-7 (PBS) @ -1.4 db is:
A: A duplicate of WBIQ (PBS) 69.6db LOS @4.6 miles, 225 degrees so NO.
B: @ -1.4 db is too weak to be picked up from everything I've read- From what I've read you want to be in the +10-15 db range and above after adding in cable/splitter loss.

CH-9 (40.1) ABC is also broadcast on 33 (33.1) (@39.2miles out @265 degrees). Jury is out on usability of 33 (33.1), so far so good but @39.2 miles out I'm assuming it's going to be a borderline station (At least with the RCA ANT751 as it's a smaller antenna)

GroundUrMast · 27-Mar-2011, 11:07 PM

If analog W46DK (real CH-46) is not on the air (The FCC database indicates the license expired in 2005) WPKH should not have adjacent channel interference to contend with. That would make it easy to receive with a 4-bay panel such as a DB-4, CM-4221, U4000 or HD4400. Aimed at 36° compass, the beam width would allow for reception of the stronger WTJP signal also.

The problem then becomes how to combine the signals from two 'same band' antennas. Some people are successful to some degree using a common 2-way splitter in reverse. That however is quite often the source of multipath interference which causes interruptions to signals that were revived well by one antenna. A more reliable option would be to use Jointennas or equivalent channel insertion filters. You would need one for each real channel (45 & 26). Warren Electronics may still have new-old-stock Jointenna product. TinLee.com (in Toronto) is a custom builder of various filters and is now one of the last options available to the OTA community. Some people find A/B switching less expensive and more reliable.

You also have the option of terminating the second antenna in one or two of the HD HomeRun tuners... An option I have had running successfully for some time now.

It sounds like you have some RG-6 and CAT-5e cable to run...