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Old 18-Jul-2016, 7:05 PM   #1
ErinMN
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 2
Help with Mpls reception please?

Hi everyone! I'm new. I cut the satellite cord a year or two ago and had been doing okay, but am now really struggling with reception that is gorgeous and then pixels out with low/no signal. I'm less than 8 miles from all the broadcast antennas but am unable to pull in anything anymore. From the start, we re-used the dish mast on our roof and had an installer come out to install the antenna. That one wasn't working very well (think it was the EZ HD recommended by Denny's Antennas), so the installer came back out about a year ago and installed something else up there. Afraid I don't know what that was because my husband was the person who was home, but it looks similar to the EZ HD.

Thought the problem might be that we're too close to an overwhelming amount of signals, so I tried the ClearStream Eclipse indoor antenna--no use. Then I bought a ton of attenuators (3 db) and stacked them in a clumsy row, hopefully. Not a chance. I added a Radio Shack RF interference filter too but no improvement.

Steve at Antennas Direct very kindly was helping me problem solve while I waited to get accepted into the forum and he thinks it's probably trees and not overload. We do live in a very leafy city. Given the mast height of a dish is only a couple of feet (although it's on a second story roof), would going up higher be our best bet?

My signal results: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e2cb6de2be4325

We're primarily interested in PBS for the Masterpiece nuggets plus whatever locals--nothing too outlandish given our location I'd think! Thanks so much for any help you have, much appreciated!!
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Old 18-Jul-2016, 7:24 PM   #2
Jake V
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If you had a professional antenna installer install your antenna the connections should be OK. But, it's always useful to check each connection from antenna to splitter to each of the televisions to see if they are tight, and if the center coax extends an acceptable length to make contact. And to make sure any leftover splitters from the satellite connections are removed.

I understand that you don't know the model of the current antenna. Is it possible that you could post a good quality photo of the antenna? And maybe a second photo showing the surroundings (especially northeast)? That would help us avoid recommending something you already have or lesser than you need.

Normally I'd suggest a RCA ANt-751 pointed at about 50-60 degrees for best reception (dependent if you want the Low Power stations at 41 degrees or maybe to receive some of the stations at 205 degrees).
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Old 18-Jul-2016, 11:23 PM   #3
rabbit73
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You have some strong local FM transmitters in the same direction. I wonder if they might be causing interference to TV reception?
http://www.fmfool.com/modeling/tmp/8...f/Radar-FM.png
Quote:
I added a Radio Shack RF interference filter too but no improvement.
Was it an FM filter, or something else?

Is the coax from the antenna grounded with a grounding block connected to the house electrical system ground?



Quote:
he thinks it's probably trees
That certainly is possible if it is getting worse; trees do grow.
Quote:
Given the mast height of a dish is only a couple of feet (although it's on a second story roof), would going up higher be our best bet?
It might help if there are trees in the signal path.

Any tall buildings in the signal path?
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Last edited by rabbit73; 19-Jul-2016 at 12:07 AM.
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Old 21-Jul-2016, 9:26 PM   #4
ErinMN
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Thanks so much for the input! I wanted to follow up with some pictures we took of the antenna as well as sort of our view toward the NE where the towers are.

Does the antenna look familiar? Does it look poorly-sited, meaning it should be up higher? Imagine it's very hard to tell given the weird perspective of a photo taken from ground level. I'll look for grounding but suspect it's unlikely. Does that impact reception, or is this more of a safety issue?

We do have plenty of trees--fortunately or not, the one immediately in the way is an elm so I'm planning for sunshine sometime in the future, poor thing.

Whether there are tall buildings on the signal path or not--I'm not sure, but I'd assume so. It's all suburban Minneapolis from us to the towers, so at least the tallest buildings aren't in the way (downtown is to our south), a few senior high rises or similar are probably between us and the towers.

The radio interference filter I got was the RadioShack 1500025--says it eliminates radio interference: Rejection 0~25MHz/30dB, 25~30MHz/35dB. Should I try something else?

Again, a very big thank you to Rabbit73 and JakeV for your kindness in taking time to look at this situation! I know it's all voluntary and appreciate it!
--Erin
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1070779 (2).JPG (95.7 KB, 416 views)
File Type: jpg P1070781 (1).JPG (125.3 KB, 409 views)
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Old 22-Jul-2016, 3:42 PM   #5
rabbit73
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Thank you for the photos, Erin. The antenna looks like the Winegard FV-30BB.







It looks like the lower loop is out of position, but it is probably just the angle that the photo was taken. If the camera was facing NE, then the horizontal reflector rods at the rear of the antenna should be facing the camera and the X UHF elements should be facing NE. Interestingly, the instructions for the antenna don't tell you which is the front of the antenna, but by convention an antenna photo by the manufacturer shows the front.
http://www.winegard.com/help/images/8/80/2452285.pdf

I see a large metal vent in front of the antenna, an object and tree beyond the vent, and possibly the antenna is below the peak of the roof; not an ideal site.





The street photo shows a large building in the signal path if my guess of your location is correct. If my guess is way off, maybe you can correct me in a PM, and I will redo the image with the green signal lines.



When I looked at your report, I also thought overload, but I agree with Steve; objects in the signal path.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Winegard FV-30BB.JPG (41.2 KB, 1053 views)
File Type: jpg ErinMNTVFant.JPG (127.5 KB, 1053 views)
File Type: jpg ErinMNTVFbldg4_1.jpg (195.3 KB, 1029 views)
File Type: jpg ErinMNTVFbldg.JPG (127.5 KB, 1036 views)
File Type: jpg ErinMNTVFmap.JPG (239.5 KB, 1034 views)
File Type: jpg Winegard FV-30BB-2.JPG (49.7 KB, 1040 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 23-Jul-2016 at 3:18 PM.
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Old 22-Jul-2016, 5:23 PM   #6
rabbit73
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Quote:
I'll look for grounding but suspect it's unlikely. Does that impact reception, or is this more of a safety issue?
Both. The dish installer and the antenna installer should have grounded the dish mount and the coax. Grounding the coax can make an interference filter more effective.

If the antenna is outside, the coax shield should be grounded with a grounding block that is connected to the house electrical system ground with 10 gauge copper wire for electrical safety and to reject interference. For further compliance with the electrical code (NEC), the mast should also be grounded in a similar manner to drain any buildup of static charge, but the system will not survive a direct strike.
Quote:
The radio interference filter I got was the RadioShack 1500025--says it eliminates radio interference: Rejection 0~25MHz/30dB, 25~30MHz/35dB. Should I try something else?
Yes, you should try something else. That filter is used to keep interference out of a video line when you are using a video game, like the Atari 2600. The RS FM trap is 1500024 or the older 15-577, both of which are hard to find. The Antennas Direct FM Trap is available.
https://www.antennasdirect.com/store...on_filter.html

The problem with those filters is they don't cover the whole FM band well, and you have strong FM signals across the whole FM band, but you could put two in series for more rejection if needed.
http://www.fmfool.com/modeling/tmp/8...f/Radar-FM.png



A HLSJ (high and common ports) can be used as an FM filter if you need one. NBC and Fox are the channels most likely to be affected.
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=zhlsj
Attached Images
File Type: jpg RS1500025_1.jpg (82.4 KB, 407 views)
File Type: jpg RS1500025-3rev.jpg (35.7 KB, 897 views)
File Type: jpg ADvsRSFMfilter.JPG (135.6 KB, 1506 views)
__________________
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Last edited by rabbit73; 22-Jul-2016 at 6:42 PM.
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Old 22-Jul-2016, 10:03 PM   #7
rabbit73
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Quote:
We're primarily interested in PBS for the Masterpiece
We also like that; hope you can get it.

If the antenna can be mounted in the clear with no local objects in front of it, then the only thing left to block the signals is the large building; the reception should be better.
__________________
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Last edited by rabbit73; 23-Jul-2016 at 10:51 AM.
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Old 25-Jul-2016, 8:13 PM   #8
rickbb
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It also looks like it's not clearing the top of the roof line and by not being very tall mast it could be getting a signal bounce off the roof which can cause problems, (sometimes it helps too).

I'd look at getting it up higher and free and clear of all the obstacles you can. You could go with a gable end mounting at the peak and get another 10 feet over the ridge line. Also lets you choose a different side of the house to mount it on to help get from behind trees, etc.
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