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8-Jul-2011, 12:42 AM
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#1
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Junior Member
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Posts: 11
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DB2 Northeast FL reception question
Last edited by mario5678; 8-Jul-2011 at 1:31 PM.
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8-Jul-2011, 1:03 AM
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#2
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 11
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DB2 Northeast FL reception question
Apparently I really mixed things up as I swore I hit submit and the thread never showed.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...03d9fe2dbb28c2
Is my location.
I have a db2 and previously had it setup so that it was facing backwards on my counter on top of the oven grate that when it touched the sink it got 7.1-7.4 and 12.1-12.2. After finding some neat articles on fractal antennas I decided to check my new address. After the transition I lost more than a few channels that I would get on just an fm wire.. assumed db2 would do the trick but I am still puzzled.
Given that both 7.1 and 12.1 share the same heading as the rest of the channels and given the fact the db2 is supposed to be uhf the only channels I am getting are vhf.. if I am reading this right. I moved the antenna up on top of the cupboards at 8-9 feet and still have the same reception with no new additonal channels. The irony of this is that when facing the antenna so the connector is in front the reception is so so.. however with the antenna facing backwards.. its much improved.. and I do know north from south etc lol.
The antenna is hooked to the tv with two 5 foot extensions and a female adpater that binds them. Is there something or any advice/help anyone can recommend as to why other channels the same distance and alightment as the others refuse to be pulled in even when tower output is greater than the current ones?
puzzled..
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8-Jul-2011, 6:15 AM
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#3
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Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Greater Seattle Area
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The DB2 is designed to receive UHF frequencies... That does not mean it will reject all VHF signals though.
Have you experimented with placing the antenna outside to avoid the reflections and attenuation caused by the construction materials and appliances in the home? An antenna's performance can be dramatically affected by nearby metal objects. The effects can include changes in the directional characteristics as well as reduction of gain at some or all frequencies.
__________________
If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)
(Please direct account activation inquiries to 'admin')
Last edited by GroundUrMast; 8-Jul-2011 at 6:18 AM.
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8-Jul-2011, 10:25 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,697
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Tv Antennas and Reception
Is this a , house , condo , apt. , mobile home , motor home , etc. ?? How many Tv's will be connected?? Read and understand about , REAL Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , Virtual Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , Analog Broadcast Tv Channels , http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=695
Last edited by John Candle; 8-Jul-2011 at 10:28 AM.
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8-Jul-2011, 1:30 PM
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#5
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 11
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John, Thank you for the link. Reading through it shortly as I knew the power output went down during the transition however still interesting.
Answer to the other question is it is a single story home surrounded by single and some two story homes. I havent had a long enough cable to get it outside the home or near a window and was almost wondering if the female adapter would have been an issue but still to get those two channels and not the other two that are identical in heading and the fact zero uhf signals come in just makes me want to figure this out even more.
I guess I could put this in the attic however what is the rule of thumb for a signal booster when runs are over xx?
Last edited by mario5678; 8-Jul-2011 at 1:33 PM.
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8-Jul-2011, 4:09 PM
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#6
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Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Greater Seattle Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mario5678
... wondering if the female adapter would have been an issue but still to get those two channels and not the other two that are identical in heading and the fact zero uhf signals come in just makes me want to figure this out even more.
I guess I could put this in the attic however what is the rule of thumb for a signal booster when runs are over xx?
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Splicing cables can work, though it provides more potential points of failure. A thorough inspection is in order even though the symptoms would likely be, 'trouble on all channels'.
Choosing to use or not use an amplifier involves more than the length of coax involved. Successful reception depends on more than signal level at the tuner. Noise and interfering signals can come from sources near and far and can destroy the 'quality' of even the strongest signals. Amplifiers generate noise and under certain conditions, interfering signals... most often this occurs when too much signal is input to the amplifier.
Long before you add an amplifier, you need to establish reliable reception 'at the antenna'. 'At the antenna' means roughly 25' or less coax between the antenna and one TV with no splitters. If you can't get a usable signal under these basic conditions, an amplifier will very often be a waste of time and money, the only exception might be when your tuner is of poor quality, having a poor signal to noise ratio and the problem channels are low in predicted strength. To use an analogy, if you dig a hole that has some water puddle at the bottom at least a few times each day, you would not expect to reliably supply clean water by installing a powerful pump, until you dug the hole deeper. To take the analogy further, if after digging down deeper, you found the water to be contaminated with chemicals, putting in a higher pressure pump won't provide clean water, just high pressure pollution.
A 25' or 50' RG-6 cable is available at almost any home center and would be the next logical step to diagnose your problem. Please consider testing with the antenna outdoors and in the attic.
What stations (call sign + real channel) are 'must haves'? (The answer to this question will determine much about the type, size and mounting location of the antenna I and others would recommend.)
Which are not received?
__________________
If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)
(Please direct account activation inquiries to 'admin')
Last edited by GroundUrMast; 8-Jul-2011 at 4:45 PM.
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9-Jul-2011, 1:13 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,697
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Tv Antennas and Reception
The article has nothing in it about reduced power. The article does have the truth about , Real Digital Tv Channels and Virtual Digital Tv Channels and Analog Tv Channels. And it does have the truth about the legal battles , the big international communications corporations are hungry for more frequency spectrum and if they can they will take away All of the free Tv channels you the American public have since the begining of commercial Tv - July 1,1941. There are so many Myths about Digital Tv reception , it boggles the mind. People have the greatest joy of repeating Myths and Untruths. But if some one says the truth , then that person is slammed down by the Myth repeaters and then the Myth repeaters run away.
Last edited by John Candle; 9-Jul-2011 at 5:30 PM.
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9-Jul-2011, 1:32 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,697
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Tv Antennas and Reception
The truth is digital tv transmits more distance with less power then analog tv. Digital tv is superior to analog tv in picture quality and sound quality. If they are still transmitting , your location has analog tv stations , look at the analog picture and digital picture , and choose the one you will watch. 90% of what we do here is cutting through the Myths so people can receive and watch Tv.
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9-Jul-2011, 1:56 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,697
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Tv Antennas and Reception
If you will like to receive and watch Tv channels starting at the top of the digital stations and channels list and on down to , WPXJ-LP ION Tv real channel 41 and on down to W45BZ real channel 45 Ocean Style Tv/Caribbean Tv. Then I recommend a Winegard HD7698P mounted above the roof so the antenna has a good shot at the Tv transmitters in the direction of , 347 true - 353 degree magnetic compass. This Tv antenna will supply signal to one or two Tv's. Here are places to buy Tv antennas and etc. , http://www.solidsignal.com / http://www.starkelectronic.com , http://www.amazon.com , http://www.3starinc.com
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9-Jul-2011, 6:49 PM
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#10
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GroundUrMast
Splicing cables can work, though it provides more potential points of failure. A thorough inspection is in order even though the symptoms would likely be, 'trouble on all channels'.
Choosing to use or not use an amplifier involves more than the length of coax involved. Successful reception depends on more than signal level at the tuner. Noise and interfering signals can come from sources near and far and can destroy the 'quality' of even the strongest signals. Amplifiers generate noise and under certain conditions, interfering signals... most often this occurs when too much signal is input to the amplifier.
Long before you add an amplifier, you need to establish reliable reception 'at the antenna'. 'At the antenna' means roughly 25' or less coax between the antenna and one TV with no splitters. If you can't get a usable signal under these basic conditions, an amplifier will very often be a waste of time and money, the only exception might be when your tuner is of poor quality, having a poor signal to noise ratio and the problem channels are low in predicted strength. To use an analogy, if you dig a hole that has some water puddle at the bottom at least a few times each day, you would not expect to reliably supply clean water by installing a powerful pump, until you dug the hole deeper. To take the analogy further, if after digging down deeper, you found the water to be contaminated with chemicals, putting in a higher pressure pump won't provide clean water, just high pressure pollution.
A 25' or 50' RG-6 cable is available at almost any home center and would be the next logical step to diagnose your problem. Please consider testing with the antenna outdoors and in the attic.
What stations (call sign + real channel) are 'must haves'? (The answer to this question will determine much about the type, size and mounting location of the antenna I and others would recommend.)
Which are not received?
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Going to move the tv today to a window so that the cable is closer and see if i can improve reception before I purchase a 50 foot cable.
Current channels received are 7.1 through 7.4 pbs and 12.1-12.1
I am not looking for every channel however the ones lost from the digital transition were 25.1 and 30.1. I was picking up those two lost channels with an old fm bare copper wire tacked to the wall.
The ones I would like to receive are abc/cw/cbs/fox. All in pretty much the same heading as the currently received 7.1/12.1
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9-Jul-2011, 6:50 PM
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#11
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Candle
The article has nothing in it about reduced power. The article does have the truth about , Real Digital Tv Channels and Virtual Digital Tv Channels and Analog Tv Channels. And it does have the truth about the legal battles , the big international communications corporations are hungry for more frequency spectrum and if they can they will take away All of the free Tv channels you the American public have since the begining of commercial Tv - July 1,1941. There are so many Myths about Digital Tv reception , it boggles the mind. People have the greatest joy of repeating Myths and Untruths. But if some one says the truth , then that person is slammed down by the Myth repeaters and then the Myth repeaters run away.
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Sorry for the confusion. My reference was in regards to station information before the change stating that actual power would be reduced as a result of the transition to digital.
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9-Jul-2011, 6:55 PM
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#12
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Candle
If you will like to receive and watch Tv channels starting at the top of the digital stations and channels list and on down to , WPXJ-LP ION Tv real channel 41 and on down to W45BZ real channel 45 Ocean Style Tv/Caribbean Tv. Then I recommend a Winegard HD7698P mounted above the roof so the antenna has a good shot at the Tv transmitters in the direction of , 347 true - 353 degree magnetic compass. This Tv antenna will supply signal to one or two Tv's. Here are places to buy Tv antennas and etc. , http://www.solidsignal.com / http://www.starkelectronic.com , http://www.amazon.com , http://www.3starinc.com |
The current hoa will not allow that and only suprisingly allows cable dishes or cable itself. I am not concerned with every channel that far out but just receiving the green channels would be a great addition. Looking at the information provided
Channel: 7 (7.1)
Network: PBS
Maximum ERP: 18.000 kW
Coordinates: 30.281074 -81.569813
Channel: 32 (30.1)
Network: Fox
Maximum ERP: 1000.000 kW
Coordinates: 30.281074 -81.569813
Why I get 7.1 at a lower power than fox is puzzling. As I am no expert I can only assume like you previously noted that it can be due to reflections. Wondering if the signal functions like a sine wave and at that different signal length it causes issues.. just what ifs in my head..
best bet for me is something up in the attic as the attic is high enough I can stand up in there.. however is it typical to lose 1-3db off of the antenna rating? Regular wood framed home with a shingle roof
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9-Jul-2011, 7:05 PM
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#13
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 11
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i guess it is safe to assume there arent any antennas similiar to the db2 that are better at vhf reception. Is the typical vhf antenna most of the time lacking the back grid ?
Nevermind.. here I am thinking the green ones at the top at strictly vhf.. had to look at the bottom graph and note that fox etc are under uhf..
Last edited by mario5678; 9-Jul-2011 at 7:14 PM.
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9-Jul-2011, 9:04 PM
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#14
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Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Greater Seattle Area
Posts: 4,773
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If you try the DB-2 outdoors, you may be quite happy. The real VHF stations in the 'green' section of your report should easily be received by the DB 2, if it's given the chance.
I agree with JC that to receive the weak signal from WPXC-ION (down low in the 'red'), you'll need a large antenna as he suggests. Those weak signals would require mounting outside in the clear. The right high-input preamp would provide for distribution to multiple sets. (The wrong choice of preamp would cause more harm than good.)
Antennas designed to receive VHF are lager than UHF designs of equal gain and directivity. The frequency determines element dimensions. Lower frequencies dictate use of longer elements.
__________________
If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)
(Please direct account activation inquiries to 'admin')
Last edited by GroundUrMast; 9-Jul-2011 at 9:10 PM.
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10-Jul-2011, 12:46 AM
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#15
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GroundUrMast
If you try the DB-2 outdoors, you may be quite happy. The real VHF stations in the 'green' section of your report should easily be received by the DB 2, if it's given the chance.
I agree with JC that to receive the weak signal from WPXC-ION (down low in the 'red'), you'll need a large antenna as he suggests. Those weak signals would require mounting outside in the clear. The right high-input preamp would provide for distribution to multiple sets. (The wrong choice of preamp would cause more harm than good.)
Antennas designed to receive VHF are lager than UHF designs of equal gain and directivity. The frequency determines element dimensions. Lower frequencies dictate use of longer elements.
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Thanks for the heads up.. not even looking to get ion.. just similiar channels to that of 7.1 and 12.1 only those listed below but I am limited to either indoor or attic.
WTEV-DT 19 (47.1) CBS 16.5 2Edge 50.0
WAWS-DT 32 (30.1) Fox 16.5 2Edge 48.4
WJXT-DT 42 (4.1) Ind 15.9 2Edge 48.0
WJEB-TV 44 (59.1) Ind 16.1 2Edge 47.9
WCWJ-DT 34 (17.1) CW 16.2 2Edge 46.4
WJXX-DT 10 (25.1) ABC 15.9 2Edge 39.3
this one appears to have a lower sensitivity however maybe it would suit me better than the db2
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...-(SS3000)&c=TV Antennas - Indoor Only&sku=615798396794
what gets me is my previous address on a 3rd floor apt at 20 feet up facing trees with the db2 only netted me the same 12.1 and 7.1 channels
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...03d91e1218383c
starting to wonder if the built in tuner within the sony tv is the problem
Last edited by mario5678; 10-Jul-2011 at 12:57 AM.
Reason: adding additional info
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10-Jul-2011, 4:03 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,697
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Tv Antennas and Reception
The SS3000 will not do any better then the DB2. There is no such thing as a Magic Tv Antenna. What is the reason that your antenna mounting location is limited to the inside or the attic??
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10-Jul-2011, 4:45 AM
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#17
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Candle
The SS3000 will not do any better then the DB2. There is no such thing as a Magic Tv Antenna. What is the reason that your antenna mounting location is limited to the inside or the attic??
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i replied to a couple of the previous replies within this tread however they never show up.. has me puzzled.
my prior reference in reduced power wasnt on the article but a station update that the digital transition would be be a lower output setup.. seems to be.
restriction on antenna is the hoa in the home area...
not necessarily looking for a perfect antenna.. just been goofing with aiming inside the house tonight and found some interesting sub menus on my sony tv
snr and agc% as well as an error category.. interesting to note how perfect you can get it then once I step away from the antenna the actual difference..
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10-Jul-2011, 5:06 AM
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#18
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
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wow.. stupid.. turns out i was running the channel scan under cable mode.. now that I switched it to antenna the result went from those 2 channels to over 20.. sweet.. can close this thread.. thanks
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10-Jul-2011, 6:50 AM
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#19
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Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Greater Seattle Area
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I respect your honesty, thanks.
FWIW, The FCC takes your side, not the HOA's re. antennas on your property or the area you rent. http://transition.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html
Yes, your body acts like an antenna element when it's in close proximity to the antenna. Just like other conductive materials.
__________________
If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)
(Please direct account activation inquiries to 'admin')
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11-Jul-2011, 1:20 PM
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#20
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GroundUrMast
I respect your honesty, thanks.
FWIW, The FCC takes your side, not the HOA's re. antennas on your property or the area you rent. http://transition.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html
Yes, your body acts like an antenna element when it's in close proximity to the antenna. Just like other conductive materials. |
looks like the only channels I am not receiving now are the 25.1/25.2. Amazed at the multitude of religious channels ota.
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