Help with receiving major broadcast w/ indoor antenna

[enthrop]

Hi all,

Just asking for some advice about my indoor antenna. I care mostly for the major broadcast stations, and so my focus will be on receiving those stations.

My TV Fool link:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...2c150f389807e5

I used 18-feet because I'm on the 2nd floor of an apartment building, and figured standard 10-feet per story, and then I'm mounting about 8 feet in the air.

I have both the Horton HomeWorks $10 antenna, as well as an AmazonBasics 35 Mile antenna ($25). The Homeworks antenna only came with a 3 feet cable, and I wasn't able to place it anywhere that helped me out (only ever received WNJB & Foreign channels), so I'm focusing on the AmazonBasics antenna with 15 feet cable that let me try more positions.

In one position (right by a window), I am able to receive NBC, ION, and a bunch of foreign language channels (Korean, Chinese, Spanish).

In another position (in the middle of my apartment, but facing northeast), I lose NBC, keep ION & Foreign channels, and gain CBS & Fox (as well as some other random channels, like the shopping network channels).

When I do the TVFool Radar thing, at 10 feet, it looks like I should be able to get all the channels. When I switch to 18 feet, NBC becomes "1Edge" and CBS & Fox are LOS. The TVFool report seems to imply they're all coming from the same relative angle/position, so it baffles me why I can't get them all at the same time (don't understand this tech well enough).

I keep trying different positions, but not sure if I should just give up or not... where I can get all of them at the same time: CBS, NBC, FOX, ION.

And, on top of that, can I somehow get CW and/or ABC as well? CW seems like it should be doable of I'm getting NBC, whereas ABC might be more of a pipe dream.

Should I continue to try different positions? Or, will buying a more expensive indoor antenna with amplifier help me at all? My reported distance is 28m, and my antenna's advertised range is 35mile, so I am arguably on the edge of the coverage. I was thinking of picking up an open-box Mohu Leaf 50 w/ amplifier.. but I don't want to keep buying antennas for trial and error.

[GroundUrMast]

Your report looks quite promising. Unfortunately, the negative effects of the building construction and surrounding obstacles such as other buildings or trees have not been factored into the reception prediction... There's simply is no database that provides that sort of detailed information.

Your best hope of reception from inside a building is to locate the antenna at a window that provides a view to the NE. If that view is obstructed by trees or a nearby building, you may not be able to achieve acceptable results. If you have a balcony that is for your exclusive use, a NE view from there would be even better than trying to aim through a window. (Some windows have a coating that reflects heat from the sun... These usually reflect radio waves as well. If so, you'll get poor reception results. )

Unless you can achieve nearly acceptable results using the antennas you've already bought, it's hard for me to recommend that you buy another antenna. However, if you do find that you get nearly acceptable results with the antenna(s) that you already own, an Antennas Direct CS2V may provide enough increased performance to justify it's purchase.

[enthrop]

Do you mean a view to the NE? According to the report, seems like all these signals are coming from the NE (which makes sense, NYC is about 25 miles Northeast of me).

I, unfortunately, do not have a balcony I can use. My kitchen has the only NE facing window, and I could buy a 15 feet coaxial cable and connect it to the antenna to reach that window. Would I experience signal degredation by doing that? The antenna itself came with a 15-feet cable, and I would have to extend it another 15-feet to reach that window.

I am receiving crystal clear reception when I get the channel. The challenge has been getting all the channels with one physical location.

[GroundUrMast]

Opps, yes... I've edited my earlier post. (Thanks)

An extension of 50' would not cause significant signal loss.

[enthrop]

But to clarify, the amplifier only helps if I'm getting the channel, but it's coming in poorly? On the other hand, if my issue is that I can't even get the channel at certain physical spots, then the amplifier won't help?

I was thinking because I can get the channels I want in different physical spots, if the issue is a weak signal strength that my TV decides it's "not a real channel," then an amplifier might help. But if I'm amplifying a signal that I'm truly not even getting, then amplifying nothing is more nothing

[timgr]

Locking on to a signal requires that the signal has to be strong enough to be separated from the background noise. There will always be electromagnetic noise from the environment. If you have a weak channel, the amplifier will amplify what is there, signal and noise.

When amplified, the ratio of the signal to the noise does not change, only the amplitude of both. It's the ratio of signal to noise (the SNR) that is important. Most TVs have a very sensitive tuner that can lock on to tiny signals, as long as the SNR is good enough.

So unless you have a very long cable run (ie 100' or more) you don't need an amplifier.

<edit> Also, you mentioned you get "crystal clear reception" when you get anything. This is part and parcel of digital TV. When the tuner can lock on to the carrier, the picture is perfect. When it can't, you get nothing. You'll never see the snow and banding of the old analog TV - it just doesn't happen with digital. If you are on the cusp of adequate reception, you'll get the signal dropping out, or see pixelation in the picture (ie blocks of random scrambled pixels - a side effect of the data compression method used). But you have to be right on the edge - the boundary is very sharp.