antenna advice for Marin County - Page 3

ckwsp101_tv · 15-May-2020, 6:18 PM

On other forum posters not sure the repacked stations running their antennas at full FCC power levels.

I'm hoping things will settle down post lock down.

ckwsp101_tv · 13-Jul-2020, 2:05 AM

Post repack report.

I speculated multi-path issues on lower channels put me on wrong side of "digital cliff".

I put up a 2nd AD 91 XG to build a horizontal array pointing at SF Sutro Tower.
Increased signal quality now allows for good reception.
Need to design mount for array.
Currently using saw horse.
Generic combiner/splitter from Home Depot.

During a high wind gust event (30+ mph) I will lose reception. Not a show stopper.

Found a useful script for my Silicondust Tuner.

https://github.com/shmick/TV_Stuff

Code:

~/Downloads/TV_Stuff-master > ./channel_scan.sh -D | tee output.txt
debug mode

Beginning scan on 10519452, tuner 1 at 07/12/20 17:46:18

Locking 10519452, tuner 1 with key 12121212

Unocking 10519452, tuner 1 with key 12121212

9 channels found
RF      Strngth dBmV    dBm     Quality SNR     Symbol  dbg     Calc_dBmV       Calc_dBm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5       75      -15.0   -63.8   57      18.8    100     -5900   -13.2           -61.9
7       99      -0.6    -49.4   95      31.3    100     -4550   0.2             -48.5
12      100     0.0     -48.8   86      28.4    100     -4100   4.7             -44.1
13      92      -4.8    -53.5   68      22.4    100     -4900   -3.3            -52.0
27      99      -0.6    -49.4   77      25.4    100     -4650   -0.8            -49.5
28      91      -5.4    -54.1   70      23.1    100     -5100   -5.2            -54.0
29      99      -0.6    -49.4   90      29.7    100     -4650   -0.8            -49.5
33      92      -4.8    -53.5   98      32.3    100     -5100   -5.2            -54.0
34      90      -6.0    -54.8   78      25.7    100     -5225   -6.5            -55.2
 ~/Downloads/TV_Stuff-master >

bobsgarage · 13-Jul-2020, 6:18 AM

I made mine from 1 1/2 Aluminized Exhaust tubing:

So, you "ganged" them with a splitter in reverse? I have been playing with a lowewr loss version, using a 1/4 wave transformer, works well.

ckwsp101_tv · 13-Jul-2020, 3:29 PM

To bobsgarage,

Using 2Ghz splitter in reverse.
Higher insertion loss compared to other solutions.
No idea if lower loss combiner would improve over all viewing experience.

Looking for better location on roof for longer term mount.
Using portable mount on flat roof. May need more than 1 for arrays.

Over time obstructing trees bigger.

Marginal situation at best.

Sutro stations using auxiliary antennas work days from 7 am to 6 pm for next 5 weeks.
Stations do not lock.
Ok for now. I mostly time shift programs after 6:00 pm.

Code:

 ~/Downloads/TV_Stuff-master $ ./channel_scan.sh -D | tee output.txt
debug mode

Beginning scan on 10519452, tuner 0 at 07/13/20 09:25:00

Locking 10519452, tuner 0 with key 12121212

Unocking 10519452, tuner 0 with key 12121212

5 channels found
RF      Strngth dBmV    dBm     Quality SNR     Symbol  dbg     Calc_dBmV       Calc_dBm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
13      87      -7.8    -56.5   76      25.1    100     -5150   -5.7            -54.5
19      91      -5.4    -54.1   71      23.4    100     -5100   -5.2            -54.0
20      92      -4.8    -53.5   72      23.8    100     -5050   -4.7            -53.5
31      100     0.0     -48.8   86      28.4    100     -4575   -0.0            -48.8
36      91      -5.4    -54.1   90      29.7    100     -5200   -6.2            -55.0

ckwsp101_tv · 13-Oct-2021, 7:43 PM

Long time since last post.

https://www.rabbitears.info/s/371849

Signal quality degraded over the pandemic.

Sutro Tower engineering done for time being.

I maybe now experiencing cellular interference.
T-Mobile LTE service officially available in my area.
T-Mobile tower between me and Sutro antennas.

SiliconDust support confirmed my tuner showed " very big spike of cellular phone activity at about 623MHz".

Big hourly and daily changes in signal quality.

(see tvfool.txt)

So could be something external to my antennas/amp/tuner.

I plan to order LTE filter which will block above 608 MHz.
Place filter after antennas and before RCA mast amp.
Will report back after experiment.

rabbit73 · 14-Oct-2021, 8:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ckwsp101_tv

Long time since last post.

https://www.rabbitears.info/s/371849

I plan to order LTE filter which will block above 608 MHz.
Place filter after antennas and before RCA mast amp.
Will report back after experiment.

Thank you for the new report.

Good idea to try the filter. If you order the Channel Master 3201 filter, make sure you get the NEW 600 MHz filter that says Pass 5-608 MHz Block 609-3000 MHz. They tweaked the 600 filter to reduce the loss to channel 36.

You can see the cellular signals with an SDR:

Video
I use VLC Media Player
Download and view now:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bvohk4y8hn...MyUHF.mp4?dl=0

Download now, view later:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bvohk4y8hn...MyUHF.mp4?dl=1

A less expensive SDR ($30), the RTL-SDR.COM V3, can be used with free DIY Scanner software from GitHub. The scan is not real-time; you have to wait until the scan has completed before you see it.

ckwsp101_tv · 16-Oct-2021, 6:32 PM

I deployed the Silicondust LTE filter before the UHF input of the RCA mast amp.
Now readings in RF 39-40 at noise floor of the system?
I guess signal strength 30 on RF 38-39 means the filter is doing right thing.
I'm not interested in KICU-HD (RF 36) at this time.

Overnight time shift recording of KPIX-TV (RF 29) still experienced drop outs.

I likely have multiple issues.
Going to leave in LTE filter as it appears to cause no harm and eliminates one variable.

Day time reception appears stronger than evening.
Day time heat helps diffract signal over the hill between me and desired Sutro station?
That effect less during the evening?

Dodgy antenna mount.
Change pointing of antennas by 3 degrees changed signal quality by 3 percent this morning on one station.

i added an additional 1 second delay in the channel_scan.sh script.
Appears to be a settling issue using the original 1 second delay.
Signal quality reports with 2 second delay showed less variation this morning.

Maybe that is sign of power issues in the tuner :<
I'm still on the original Silicondust tuner external power supply.
Going to order replacement power supply.

Code:

~/Videos/TV_Stuff-master/channel_scan.sh -A
debug mode

Beginning scan on 10519452, tuner 0 at 10/16/21 09:30:20

Locking 10519452, tuner 0 with key 12121212

Unocking 10519452, tuner 0 with key 12121212

50 channels found
RF    Strngth    dBmV    dBm    Quality    SNR    Symbol    dbg    Calc_dBmV    Calc_dBm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2    34    -39.6    -88.3    0    0.0    0    -8350    -37.4        -86.2
3    35    -39.0    -87.8    0    0.0    0    -8300    -37.0        -85.7
4    43    -34.2    -83.0    0    0.0    0    -7825    -32.2        -81.0
5    73    -16.2    -65.0    44    14.5    0    -6000    -14.2        -62.9
6    45    -33.0    -81.8    0    0.0    0    -7625    -30.3        -79.0
7    92    -4.8    -53.5    85    28.1    100    -4950    -3.8        -52.5
8    34    -39.6    -88.3    0    0.0    0    -8400    -37.9        -86.7
9    44    -33.6    -82.3    41    13.5    0    -7800    -32.0        -80.7
10    49    -30.6    -79.3    41    13.5    0    -7475    -28.8        -77.5
11    37    -37.8    -86.5    0    0.0    0    -8175    -35.7        -84.5
12    97    -1.8    -50.5    90    29.7    100    -4550    0.2        -48.5
13    84    -9.6    -58.4    62    20.5    100    -5350    -7.7        -56.5
14    61    -23.4    -72.2    42    13.9    0    -6875    -22.8        -71.6
15    36    -38.4    -87.2    0    0.0    0    -8350    -37.4        -86.2
16    78    -13.2    -62.0    0    0.0    0    -5825    -12.4        -61.2
17    65    -21.0    -69.8    0    0.0    0    -6650    -20.6        -69.4
18    52    -28.8    -77.5    42    13.9    0    -7425    -28.3        -77.0
19    84    -9.6    -58.4    76    25.1    100    -5475    -9.0        -57.7
20    91    -5.4    -54.1    81    26.7    100    -5100    -5.2        -54.0
21    50    -30.0    -78.8    0    0.0    0    -7575    -29.8        -78.5
22    65    -21.0    -69.8    42    13.9    0    -6625    -20.4        -69.1
23    53    -28.2    -77.0    0    0.0    0    -7400    -28.0        -76.8
24    62    -22.8    -71.5    42    13.9    0    -6850    -22.6        -71.3
25    71    -17.4    -66.2    57    18.8    100    -6275    -16.9        -65.6
26    45    -33.0    -81.8    41    13.5    0    -7875    -32.7        -81.5
27    90    -6.0    -54.8    67    22.1    100    -5200    -6.2        -55.0
28    90    -6.0    -54.8    64    21.1    100    -5150    -5.7        -54.5
29    94    -3.6    -52.4    69    22.8    100    -4925    -3.5        -52.3
30    95    -3.0    -51.8    69    22.8    100    -4900    -3.3        -52.0
31    98    -1.2    -50.0    90    29.7    100    -4725    -1.5        -50.3
32    94    -3.6    -52.4    73    24.1    100    -4950    -3.8        -52.5
33    86    -8.4    -57.1    62    20.5    100    -5475    -9.0        -57.7
34    94    -3.6    -52.4    90    29.7    100    -5000    -4.3        -53.0
35    53    -28.2    -77.0    41    13.5    0    -7475    -28.8        -77.5
36    73    -16.2    -65.0    58    19.1    100    -6250    -16.6        -65.4
37    32    -40.8    -89.5    0    0.0    0    -8700    -40.9        -89.7
38    30    -42.0    -90.8    0    0.0    0    -8850    -42.4        -91.2
39    30    -42.0    -90.8    0    0.0    0    -8875    -42.7        -91.4
40    34    -39.6    -88.3    0    0.0    0    -8650    -40.4        -89.2
41    32    -40.8    -89.5    0    0.0    0    -8775    -41.7        -90.4
42    33    -40.2    -89.0    0    0.0    0    -8725    -41.2        -89.9
43    34    -39.6    -88.3    0    0.0    0    -8625    -40.2        -88.9
44    37    -37.8    -86.5    0    0.0    0    -8475    -38.7        -87.4
45    39    -36.6    -85.3    0    0.0    0    -8375    -37.7        -86.4
46    41    -35.4    -84.2    0    0.0    0    -8275    -36.7        -85.5
47    42    -34.8    -83.5    0    0.0    0    -8225    -36.2        -85.0
48    41    -35.4    -84.2    0    0.0    0    -8250    -36.5        -85.2
49    38    -37.2    -86.0    0    0.0    0    -8450    -38.4        -87.2
50    32    -40.8    -89.5    0    0.0    0    -8800    -41.9        -90.7
 51    28    -43.2    -92.0    0    0.0    0    -9050    -44.4        -93.1

Now experiencing tuner resets. Did not have issue a year ago.
Silicondust support suggested original power supply could be an issue.

Code:

19700101-00:00:17 System: reset reason = application watchdog 19700101-00:00:17 System: E5592573 0000000E 004F41F8 0046B4F8 0046A6E8 004F5734 0040F7CC 005109E4 19700101-00:00:17 System: 0046A238 004D4A34 00409258 0046D490 00460C88 00401674 0041438C 00402850 19700101-00:00:17 System: network link 100f

ckwsp101_tv · 22-Oct-2021, 10:18 PM

With the LTE filter in place I experienced fewer faults in time shifted shows.

I replaced the original tuner power supply with new Silicondust power supply.

No immediate measurable improvements in signal quality after power supply switch.

See how things go next recording viewing cycle.

Tower Guy · 23-Oct-2021, 2:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ckwsp101_tv

I likely have multiple issues.

Day time reception appears stronger than evening.
Day time heat helps diffract signal over the hill between me and desired Sutro station?
That effect less during the evening?

Dodgy antenna mount.
Change pointing of antennas by 3 degrees changed signal quality by 3 percent this morning on one station.

Have you considered multipath due to airplane reflections? Did you see much airplane flutter in the analog days?

ckwsp101_tv · 23-Oct-2021, 7:10 PM

No airplane flutter in the analog days.

Reception quality slowly went down over the last 12 months.

Big storm coming into Bay Area.

May reposition horizontal array after storm.

Before pending storm.
Reception change due to atmospheric conditions?

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/23/weath...ght/index.html

time ~/Videos/TV_Stuff-master/channel_scan.sh -D
debug mode

Beginning scan on 10519452, tuner 0 at 10/23/21 12:51:22

Locking 10519452, tuner 0 with key 12121212

Unocking 10519452, tuner 0 with key 12121212

13 channels found
RF Strngth dBmV dBm Quality SNR Symbol dbg Calc_dBmV Calc_dBm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7 91 -5.4 -54.1 90 29.7 100 -5000 -4.3 -53.0
12 98 -1.2 -50.0 73 24.1 100 -4500 0.7 -48.0
13 83 -10.2 -59.0 69 22.8 100 -5425 -8.5 -57.2
19 84 -9.6 -58.4 70 23.1 100 -5475 -9.0 -57.7
20 88 -7.2 -56.0 90 29.7 100 -5275 -7.0 -55.7
27 89 -6.6 -55.4 68 22.4 100 -5250 -6.7 -55.5
28 90 -6.0 -54.8 64 21.1 100 -5150 -5.7 -54.5
29 93 -4.2 -53.0 77 25.4 100 -5000 -4.3 -53.0
31 99 -0.6 -49.4 81 26.7 100 -4675 -1.0 -49.8
32 94 -3.6 -52.4 69 22.8 100 -4950 -3.8 -52.5
33 89 -6.6 -55.4 76 25.1 100 -5300 -7.2 -56.0
34 90 -6.0 -54.8 85 28.1 100 -5225 -6.5 -55.2
36 72 -16.8 -65.5 59 19.5 100 -6325 -17.4 -66.1

My Silicondust tuner using older 7th generation Panasonic demodulator chip mentioned in article.

https://in-koherence.com/index.php/2...onnect-quatro/

Review of my generation Silicondust tuner.
https://www.rabbitears.info/blog/ind...meRun-4-Review

Bay Area challenging reception area.

https://in-koherence.com/index.php/2...ith-diversity/

ckwsp101_tv · 24-Oct-2021, 4:40 PM

Big rain storm hitting Bay Area.

Better reception conditions during rainy weather.
Winds averaging 4 MPH.

Code:

time ~/Videos/TV_Stuff-master/channel_scan.sh -D
debug mode

Beginning scan on 10519452, tuner 0 at 10/24/21 08:30:07

Locking 10519452, tuner 0 with key 12121212

Unocking 10519452, tuner 0 with key 12121212

14 channels found
RF	Strngth	dBmV	dBm	Quality	SNR	Symbol	dbg	Calc_dBmV	Calc_dBm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7	94	-3.6	-52.4	98	32.3	100	-4800	-2.3		-51.0
12	98	-1.2	-50.0	78	25.7	100	-4500	0.7		-48.0
13	83	-10.2	-59.0	53	17.5	100	-5400	-8.2		-57.0
19	87	-7.8	-56.5	82	27.1	100	-5325	-7.5		-56.2
20	88	-7.2	-56.0	90	29.7	100	-5250	-6.7		-55.5
27	99	-0.6	-49.4	98	32.3	100	-4625	-0.5		-49.3
28	98	-1.2	-50.0	90	29.7	100	-4700	-1.3		-50.0
29	97	-1.8	-50.5	78	25.7	100	-4775	-2.0		-50.8
30	97	-1.8	-50.5	65	21.4	100	-4775	-2.0		-50.8
31	100	0.0	-48.8	81	26.7	100	-4550	0.2		-48.5
32	97	-1.8	-50.5	78	25.7	100	-4775	-2.0		-50.8
33	94	-3.6	-52.4	98	32.3	100	-4950	-3.8		-52.5
34	88	-7.2	-56.0	76	25.1	100	-5325	-7.5		-56.2
36	81	-11.4	-60.1	69	22.8	100	-5750	-11.7		-60.4

ckwsp101_tv · 2-Apr-2023, 8:47 PM

With upgraded SiliconDust tuner fewer reception failures.
ATSC 3.0 lighthouse transmitter at Sutro Tower (RF 7)

Up to 20 percent improvement in signal quality surprising ( in a good way).
Using legacy scripts. Calculated values may be invalid for newer tuner.
Not going to pay for developer software for new tuner at this time.

My trusty Extend failed. Cannot perform A/B test.
Same antenna, LTE filter, preamp and cabling as before.
RCA preamp due for a replacement.

Annoyed one needs to purchase a MS HEVC plugin to receive ATSC 3.0 video with
SiliconDust W10 app.
Too bad stock VLC lacks AC-4 audio support. Can view ATSC 3.0 video with no sound.

updated link

https://www.rabbitears.info/s/944339

Code:

Hardware Model	HDFX-4K
Firmware Version	20230323

debug mode

Beginning scan on xxx, tuner 1 at 04/02/23 10:46:30

Locking xxx, tuner 1 with key 12121212

Unocking xxx, tuner 1 with key 12121212

17 channels found
RF	Strngth	dBmV	dBm	Quality	SNR	Symbol	dbg	Calc_dBmV	Calc_dBm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5	72	-16.8	-65.5	63	20.8	100	8-73	59.9		11.2
7	83	-10.2	-59.0	76	25.1	100	8-87	59.9		11.2
12	95	-3.0	-51.8	85	28.1	100	8-107	45.4		-3.4
13	80	-12.0	-60.8	69	22.8	100	8-86	59.9		11.2
19	88	-7.2	-56.0	88	29.0	100	8-103	45.4		-3.4
20	80	-12.0	-60.8	81	26.7	100	8-90	59.9		11.2
24	60	-24.0	-72.8	55	18.2	100	8-62	59.9		11.2
25	63	-22.2	-71.0	61	20.1	100	8-65	59.9		11.2
27	90	-6.0	-54.8	88	29.0	100	8-104	45.4		-3.4
28	88	-7.2	-56.0	76	25.1	100	8-101	45.4		-3.4
29	91	-5.4	-54.1	81	26.7	100	8-104	45.4		-3.4
30	97	-1.8	-50.5	95	31.3	100	8-112	45.4		-3.4
31	91	-5.4	-54.1	85	28.1	100	8-104	45.4		-3.4
32	94	-3.6	-52.4	85	28.1	100	8-108	45.4		-3.4
33	81	-11.4	-60.1	82	27.1	100	8-90	59.9		11.2
34	85	-9.0	-57.8	82	27.1	100	8-96	59.9		11.2
36	69	-18.6	-67.3	65	21.4	100	8-74	59.9		11.2

rabbit73 · 19-Apr-2023, 1:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ckwsp101_tv

With upgraded SiliconDust tuner fewer reception failures.
ATSC 3.0 lighthouse transmitter at Sutro Tower (RF 7)

Up to 20 percent improvement in signal quality surprising ( in a good way).
Using legacy scripts. Calculated values may be invalid for newer tuner.
Not going to pay for developer software for new tuner at this time.

Thank you for the interesting update with the data from your HDFX-4K using the legacy shmick script.

I haven't been posting much on this forum lately; mostly on the AVS forum where there is some controversy about DRM and ATSC 3.0.

I changed my password for this forum when the certificate hadn't been renewed, and I forgot to write it down. After a little trial-and-error, I recovered it.

You might be interested in this thread, if you haven't seen it, where I mentioned you a few times:
How to display SNR in dB and Signal Strength in dBm on HDHomeRun Config GUI
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/how...g-gui.3270642/

Have you seen these videos by dylan?

ATSC 3.0: Testing WTVJ in Miami, FL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4lwlXnE-NM

ATSC 3.0 and ATSC 1.0 AVC in Orlando, FL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mKJmwSATtk

ckwsp101_tv · 22-Apr-2023, 7:02 PM

rabbit73

Will view the mentioned references.

Turns out SD Extend transcoded streams did not saturate my obsolete home network.
Need newer switch to support multiple Flex 4K ATSC 1.0 streams.

I'm time shifting OTA shows to bypass commercials.

Fewer network concerns with ATSC 3.0 streams.

1080p/60 coming from ATSC 3.0 station :>
My VLC client cannot decode AC-4 audio :<

ckwsp101_tv · 10-Jun-2023, 4:22 PM

Legacy script could use an update for latest generation SiliconDust tuner.

Definitely more reliable reception compared to older tuners.

Using the script default shows changes in tuner return strings compared to prior
generation tuners.

Verbose mode also introduces a delay which assists script capturing of some tuner response strings.

Code:

time ~/Videos/TV_Stuff-master/channel_scan.sh

Beginning scan on 10A53D44, tuner 0 at 06/10/23 06:50:54

14 channels found
RF	Strngth	dBmV	dBm	Quality	Symbol	Virt#1	Name 		Virt#2	Name		Virt#3	Name		Virt#4	Name		Virt#5	Name
------------------------------------------------------------------------
7	90	-6	-54.75	81	100	PROGRAM	1377		PROGRAM	1378		encrypted	PROGRAM		KPIX-TV	encrypted		107.1	KGO-HD		114.1	KDTV-TV
12	94	-3.6	-52.35	99	100	7.1	KGO-HD		7.2	LOCLish		7.3	ThisTV		7.4	HSN		4.5	Shop			
13	85	-9	-57.75	81	100	11.1	KNTV		4	11.2		5	48.3		PROGRAM	6		PROGRAM	7		PROGRAM	8
19	77	-13.8	-62.55	85	100	48.1	KSTS-HD		48.2	TeleX		11.3	KNTV-HD		11.4	COZI-TV		48.5	NBCLX		48.6	Oxygen
20	75	-15	-63.75	75	100	14.1	KDTV-HD		14.2	UniMas		14.3	getTV		14.4	Mystery		26.1	KTSF		26.3	26-3
27	83	-10.2	-58.95	81	100	60.1	KPJKHD		60.2	PJKF24		60.3	PJKNHK		60.4	PJKDW		60.5	PJKFNX		60.6	PJKJAZZ
28	87	-7.8	-56.55	81	100	44.1	KBCW-DT		44.2	COMET		44.3	MeTV		44.4	TBD		44.6	CHARGE!		4.3	Rewind
29	90	-6	-54.75	82	100	5.1	KPIX-TV		5.2	StartTV		5.3	Dabl		5.4	FAVE						
30	92	-4.8	-53.55	91	100	9.1	KQED-HD		9.2	KQED+HD		9.3	WORLD		9.4	KIDS		54.1	KQED+HD		54.2	KQED-HD
31	96	-2.4	-51.15	100	100	2.1	KTVU-HD		2.2	FOXWX		2.3	MOVIES!		2.4	BUZZR		4.1	KRON-TV			
32	95	-3	-51.75	96	100	38.1	KCNS		38.2	SkyLink		42.1	TCT		32.1	KMTP		38.5	NTD		42.2	ESNE
33	85	-9	-57.75	94	100	65.1	ION		65.2	Bounce		65.3	CourtTV		65.4	Defy		7	65.5		8	65.6
34	87	-7.8	-56.55	95	100	66.1	KFSF-HD		66.2	KDTV-HD		66.3	Bounce		66.4	Grit		66.5	TrueCri		66.6	Twist
36	65	-21	-69.75	65	100	36.1	KICU-HD		36.2	KEMS		36.3	FOXWX		36.4	CATCHY		36.5	TheGrio			

real	2m0.952s
user	0m0.051s
sys	0m0.057s