Is it even possible?

[tlandmeier]

Hi guys,

New to the world of antennas, but I have a situation I've been researching for the last two weeks and I cannot figure this out. Please help!!

I live in Burlington, WI. Which is basically between Chicago and Milwaukee. I am 34 miles from towers in Milwaukee, and 64 miles from Chicago. Not LOS.

I would like to get all network channels from Milwaukee, but I want to get WFLD Fox from Chicago, as I am a Bears fan. I can't cut cable til I get that channel. I am not opposed to a roof antenna. If someone can simply tell me if it's possible, and what antenna/other equipment I need.

My report is here:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d2430f852d0b05

Thanks in advance. I really appreciate

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I recommend 2 Separate antenna systems , 1 antenna system for Milwaukee and 1 antenna system for WFLD and other Chicago Tv stations.

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Antenna system #1.

Install Above the Peak of the Roof so that reception is not , obstructed , impeded , blocked , in the directions of , South East and North East.

Install a.

http://www.antennacraft.net.

HD1200 all channel antenna aimed at about 36 degree magnetic compass direction. Milwaukee.

Install a.

http://www.antennacraft.net.

10G201 preamplifier.

For 1 Tv connected use No splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-2D , 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv's connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-3D , 3 way splitter.

Buy at.

http://www.hollandelectronics.com , or , http://www.amazon.com.

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Here is how to aim antennas.

http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Use a Real and Actual magnetic compass to aim antennas , do not trust a , cell phone , tablet and etc compass.

To assist best reception , most Digital Tv's have a Signal Strength Meter and some Digital Tv's also have a Signal Quality Meter.

As always , the antenna aim and location can be adjusted for best reception.

________________________________________________________________________


Antenna system #2.

On the same antenna mast about 3+ feet above the HD1200 antenna install a.

Antennas Direct DB8e , UHF antenna aimed at about 154 degree magnetic compass direction.

Keeping in mind that antenna system 1 and 2 are 2 Separate antenna systems.

A separate 10G201 preamplifier is connected to the DB8e and Separate HFS Splitters are connected as part of antenna system # 2.

All coaxes are separate from antenna system number 1 , because the 2 antenna systems are Completely Separate.

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Here are above the roof antenna mounts.

http://www.ronard.com/909911.html. Install the ronard 3 foot tripod antenna mount.

http://www.ronard.com/34424560.html. Install the , ronard(4560) , eave antenna mount.

http://www.ronard.com/ychim.html. Measure around the chimney and install a , ronard(2212) , ronard(2218) , ronard(2224) .

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A , http://www.epvision.com.

Tuner/Tuner Recorder can be connected to one of the antenna systems at each Tv location.

The Tv will be connected to one antenna system.

And the Tuner/Tuner Recorder will be connected to the other antenna system.

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You can try this Test of reception before installing 2 separate antenna systems.

Install the HD1200 and aim the antenna at 154 degree magnetic compass and see how many of the Chicago and Milwaukee Tv stations are received.

The reason the HD1200 is aimed at Chicago 154 degree is because those Tv stations signal strength are weaker.

And the Milwaukee Tv stations are stronger of signal strength and will be received at the back angle to the HD1200 antenna.

The -->Only Way<-- to discover how well this works is to try it and see what happens.

You have nothing to loose and every thing to gain because you will be installing HD1200 in any event.

[Stereocraig]

I'm down here in the corner, in Pleasant Prairie and FOX 32 is a blowtorch, even at 46 miles.

I am also able to pick up stations from MI, so Lions games, will also be available to me.

The only difference, may be your extra 18 miles and your 2 edge, v my LOS.

Chicago, also has a few good retro channels.

I'm a Packers fan, but half my friends and family are Bears fans.

Looking forward to our trip to Lambeau, for the Nov 9 game.

[tlandmeier]

Thanks. For. Extensive help. Yeah my brother is in. Racine and picks it up no problem. Is it possible to pick up both. Milwaukee and WFLD with just antenna? Ill order hd1200cand try out. But any idea on chances? Ill be using a Tivo with it as well. Antenna should be about 30ft up. Yeah...cant cut cable til i know for sure i can get the Bears game. Only game i dont need is green bay vs chicago...cause ill be there at Soldier!

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During the Testing phase of reception.

Tivo tuners are Known to have tuners that are not the best at receiving Digital Broadcast Tv Signals that are not the best signal strength and quality.

Your reception location has Tv signals that are not the best signal strength and quality.

Recommend do not Test reception with a Tivo tuner.

Recommend Test Reception with a Newer Flat Panel Digital Tv.

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As a Test to Prove Reception.

Connect a Continues Length of New Coax and run the coax through a open door or window direct to 1 Tv.

And Yes the 10G201 preamplifier will be connected.

[tlandmeier]

So I have some additional information. I ran into a neighbor from my subdivision who has a DB8e and is able to pull in WFLD in Chicago by pointing it towards Chicago. Any guesses/ideas if this will ALSO pull in the Milwaukee stations 34 miles away? Teleview, thank you so much for your continued help in this. If it is at all possible, I would really like to do this with one antenna. Just not sure. If I were to purchase an antenna with hopes of pulling both, would you suggest the HD1200 or DB8e to start with?

+=>

I recommend the HD1200 antenna to start with.

The HD1200 is Designed to receive , UHF channels 14 thru 51 and VHF high band channels 7 thru 13.

It will receive the weaker Chicago Tv stations at the front of the antenna and the stronger Milwaukee Tv stations at the back angle to the antenna.

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The DB8e is a real fine antenna , and does a real good job of receiving the UHF Tv channels 14 thru 51.

However it is not designed to receive the VHF high band channels 7 thru 13 very well.

Yes it is true that the DB8e will receive the VHF high band channels if the signal strengths are strong.

However weaker signal strength VHF high band channels will most likely not be received.

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The DB8e is also a Very Directional antenna with both panels aimed one direction.

The DB8e antenna has 2 antenna reception panles that can be aimed different directions.

When the panels are aimed different directions then the gain of that antenna panel is what it can receive buy its self.

When one panel is aimed in Completely Different Direction then the other panel then each panel will receive what it can without the added gain of the other panel.

What this is leading to is.

What direction or directions are the panels aimed and the Real Important Question is.

What Chicago and Milwaukee stations are being received.

And if one were to say , the neighbor has the XYZ antenna and gets 'All the channels'!!

Then I think and say , all of what channels??

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Your reception location and your neighbors reception is/are not a ideal reception location.

Weak Tv signals and Edge Path obstructions.

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The Truth is.

The reception location will require Testing of reception if the 'aim' is to receive many reliably received channels.

I have done my best to provide practical and useful information for reliable reception with a 2 separate antenna system.
The 2 separate antenna system will provide the best reception.

And 1 antenna system.

As always it is your choice to install the antenna and antennas that you decide.

As often happens antenna/s are installed and as time goes by it is discovered that more channels can be received with a different better antenna/s.

It is Ok , we are working with antennas , it is not the end of the world situation.

So their you have it , The Truth. The Truth is a Rare Animal these days.

[ADTech]

You will probably need to keep the panels aligned in parallel and use a rotor to accurately aim the antenna. This assumes no impairments in front of the antenna such as trees, buildings, or other structures. The numbers say WFLD is receivable, but there are factors not included in those numbers.

Use a low noise, medium gain pre-amp unless you have an extensive distribution network.

[tlandmeier]

Wow. Straight from the source. Thank you. However I do jave a couple quick questions. The main one i that if i hear you correctly..i aim db8e towards Milwaukee (local) and then rotate once a week to pull in Bears game. Is that correct? Then I would go back to televiews original suggestion of using two antennas. Withh additional cost/installation of rotor..wouldnt it be more advantageous to have both markets come in all the time? I apologize on advance for my ignorance..I really am clueless with regards to this. Am I also to take from that response that the only way I pull both markets with one antenna is with a rotor? Thanks again everyone.

[tlandmeier]

I apologize. I just read your response teleview. I was on my phone yesterday evening and somehow missed it. Thank you very much for your detailed explanation. I absolutely appreciate your advice and will buy whatever would be deemed necessary. I just think that I maybe didn't include all pertinent information. I ONLY need to pick up WFLD from Chicago, for the Bears games. That would be the only time I would ever need to pick up that signal. The neighbor, uses DB8e, to pick up that station (including several others from Chicagoland). So I do know that antenna will pick it up. However, he also has Directv, and doesnt need that antenna to pick up local channels from Milwaukee. I was hoping, knowing that DB8e will pick up WFLD in Chicago, that it would also pick up stronger signal from backside from Milwaukee. But it seems that the hd1200 is the way to go. Although I'm curious why the focus on VHF, as there are only two stations (I believe) that are VHF from my report. PBS and an independent station. Not a big deal at all if I didn't get them. Knowing that I do not need VHF, would that change your recommendation?

[Stereocraig]

I'm guessing that the two VHF stations you're referring to, are 5 and 8. Which indeed are PBS and also Weather Nation.
If they aren't important to you, that's one thing, but who knows what may pop up in the future.

BTW, I receive both at 39.7 miles, w/ a UHF only.

[tlandmeier]

Craig, that's good to know. Just talked to neighbor, and he gets WFLD from Chicago, and all networks from Milwaukee, except NBC, virtual channel 4.1. I wonder why? He can get it if he adjusts it a little bit. I did find out the antenna was not a DB8e, just looks like it. He bought it for $100 because it said "100 mile range". This just gets better and better. Sorry to be a pain.

+=>

The last -->Forced Sale<-- of the frequency spectrum that made up the UHF Tv channels 69 thru 52 was just before the Broadcast Tv Digital Conversion of June , year 2009.

Those that Forced the Sale were the FCC Federal Communications Commission and Big International Cell Phone and Wireless Internet Providers.

Another -->Forced Sale<-- of frequency spectrum that make up the UHF Tv channels 51 and looks like down to 31 , is coming.

As the last time it was called the Channel Repack. Is named the same again , Channel Repack.

This means that the Tv stations that are transmitting on channels 51 thru 31 will be Forced to move to another channel.

This means that the remaining Tv channels will be channels , 2 thru 30.

TV channels 2 thru 13 are currently underutilized.

So guess the Tv channels that the Tv stations will go to.

I know you guessed correctly , VHF Channels 2 thru 13.

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It is a Real Situation and the Big Players Are Not Playing Nice.

The International Cell Phone and Wireless Internet Providers have with the cooperation of the FCC prevented any new Tv stations on UHF channel 51.

The claim is that channel 51 is used as a separation guard band so the Cell phone and Wireless internet do not interfere with Tv channels 50 and on down.

The Real Truth is.

It is a ruse to grab the frequency spectrum of UHF Channel 51.

-->All<->the players know the Real , Wink , Wink , Wink , Truth.

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So you ask me why I recommend Tv antennas that receive the VHF Tv channels.

[Stereocraig]

WTMJ 4 drops out on me all the time.
Not even like it doesn't have enough strength either, cause it doesn't even show up on the menu, when this happens. Even though I use a 91XG w/ a rotor.

Just as quickly, it will suddenly reappear for no reason, w/o even rescanning, adding, or even double rescanning.
Sometimes, it will even appear on virt 28.1.

I know it's the station itself, cause my parents have the same problem and they live a mile from here and have a completely different antenna setup.

[tlandmeier]

So the update is as follows, and I’m unsure about several things. I bought both the DB8e and the 1200 as was suggested earlier in the thread. I did a trial run in my living room on the floor and I am able to pick up all of the Milwaukee stations I was hoping, and the signal strength on WFLD (Chicago Fox) is at 35 peak (using tivo tuner, which is split into four way tuner, apparently "they say" you need above 50 to get) What is the signal strength needed to pick up a digital channel? Will putting this on the roof add that much signal? I have some coming in at 55-59, but none over 73-74. I then hooked up the 10G201 preamp, and there was no signal strength boost at all. Perhaps that is not the purpose of the preamp?

Anyways, the tricky part comes in with the install. If I mount on my roof, the best location is unfortunately at opposite end of house. I am estimating that I will need 100ft of coaxial to connect. How much of a signal loss will I see doing such a long run? I was planning on buying RG6 with the ground. In the basement (right underneath main TV, where best reception is needed, I will ground to the junction box ground. My internet is already ground there as well. Will this be acceptable? Safe? Etc?? ( A disclaimer is that I am also doing the “ground block” on outside of home). Antenna placement will be approximately 25 feet off the ground. No obstructions whatsoever.

And one other stumbling block is my dad insisting we try reception in the attic first, before mounting on roof. Lol. It would be nice if that works, because we get a ton of wind and good old Wisconsin winters.

Thanks in advance for your help. I wouldn’t even be this far if it wasn’t for you folks.

My TVFool Report at 25 feet. http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d2430f852d0b05

[Jake V]

Trying the antenna in the attic is a very acceptable thing to do. Run the wire from the coax down through the inside of the house to one television as a test. Since attics can be very unfavorable to antennas you'll need to try it every it will fit in the attic using a real compass to aim at magnetic 36 degrees.

If you eventually move to mount the antenna on the roof, start with your preferred spot but also check other spots across the roof. Sometimes moving the antenna even a few inches makes all the difference (and again test with the coax draped down the house in a window or door near the tv).

[timgr]

Originally Posted by tlandmeier

... I am estimating that I will need 100ft of coaxial to connect. How much of a signal loss will I see doing such a long run? I was planning on buying RG6 with the ground. In the basement (right underneath main TV, where best reception is needed, I will ground to the junction box ground.

The 100 ft cable run should not be a problem. You were already advised to place an inexpensive amplifier at the mast and power it through the coax. This is very commonly done, and the power supply will be indoors, at the other end of the cable. Using the preamplifier mentioned by Teleview you should not have any issues with cable loss for several hundred feet of cable. You need a separate heavy-gauge mast ground to protect against lightning. Plenty of discussion of this in older posts. You can start here - http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=901 You can buy #6 solid copper wire of any length from eBay sellers.