Lost all VHF stations - Page 2

Tower Guy · 31-Mar-2019, 1:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nascarken

Two word's SOLiD single.com

You probably mean solidsignal.com

blackstone · 12-Apr-2019, 10:58 PM

Here's an update and a few more questions, please, if you will indulge me.

Received and installed the CM 5020 this week.
So, I am using it as well as the DB8-E.

Most of the lost stations have re-appeared.
Some aren't quite watchable yet.
Hopefully, a little tweak will help.

I got back WPCW 19 the CW and WTOV Channel 9.
WPGH 53 is so-so.
I am picking up WQED 13 PBS but it's not watchable.

An oddity (to me) was when I had no VHF antenna connected I received WWCP 8 better than I do with an antenna.

I seem to have lost strength on a couple stations that are UHF.
WTAE 4 and WJAC 6.
These were real strong with the DB8-E only but go in and out now that I have both.

Is there some conflict with using these two antennas?
The Channel Master is @ 18' and pointing at 225
I haven't moved the DB 8E in months.
It is 12' and @ 210

Thanks, again, for any insights

Tim · 13-Apr-2019, 2:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstone

Here's an update and a few more questions, please, if you will indulge me.

Received and installed the CM 5020 this week.
So, I am using it as well as the DB8-E.

Most of the lost stations have re-appeared.
Some aren't quite watchable yet.
Hopefully, a little tweak will help.

I got back WPCW 19 the CW and WTOV Channel 9.
WPGH 53 is so-so.
I am picking up WQED 13 PBS but it's not watchable.

An oddity (to me) was when I had no VHF antenna connected I received WWCP 8 better than I do with an antenna.

I seem to have lost strength on a couple stations that are UHF.
WTAE 4 and WJAC 6.
These were real strong with the DB8-E only but go in and out now that I have both.

Is there some conflict with using these two antennas?
The Channel Master is @ 18' and pointing at 225
I haven't moved the DB 8E in months.
It is 12' and @ 210

Thanks, again, for any insights

So do you have both the antennas connected together using a common splitter? If so, you may be having signals arriving at each antenna out of phase and cancelling each other out

blackstone · 13-Apr-2019, 2:41 AM

Thanks for the response, Tim.

Each antenna is on the same mast with separate lines coming into the house with separate pre-amps.

They are separate until they combine at a combiner to go into my distribution amp
Hope this is what you are asking

Tim · 13-Apr-2019, 2:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstone

Thanks for the response, Tim.

Each antenna is on the same mast with separate lines coming into the house with separate pre-amps.

They are separate until they combine at a combiner to go into my distribution amp
Hope this is what you are asking

Yes, so what are you using for a combiner?

blackstone · 13-Apr-2019, 2:53 AM

Something I got from Antennas Direct several years ago, I think.

It looks like a splitter turned around but it's not.
I have been using it since I got a second antenna way back.

I tried the splitters turned around and they didn't work.
This has worked for quite a while

blackstone · 13-Apr-2019, 9:54 AM

The combiner is a Channelplus and it says combiner/splitter.

Since I woke up in the middle of the night and couldn't get back to sleep I decided to test something.

I disconnected the DB 8-E to see what I could get.
I continued to get WTOV 9, WQED 13 a little better and WPCW 19 as well as WPGH 53.
All VHF stations except for 53.

Then, I disconnected the Channel Master.
This allowed WTAE 4, WPXI 11 and WJAC 6 to come in clear and strong again but no 53.

This implies there is some kind of conflict but I have no idea how to fix it.

Nascarken · 13-Apr-2019, 1:02 PM

That is what happens when you do not use one feed line for uhf&one for vh f
With an A/B switcher.

JoeAZ · 13-Apr-2019, 2:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstone

Thanks for the response, Tim.

Each antenna is on the same mast with separate lines coming into the house with separate pre-amps.

They are separate until they combine at a combiner to go into my distribution amp
Hope this is what you are asking

You are correct in your assessment that there is a cancellation effect
going on. You need to keep the two antennas separate all the way
to each tv. You can accomplish that by either using an A/B switch
or a separate tuner at each tv. You then need to readjust each antenna
because that cancellation could have caused mis-aiming.

Nascarken · 13-Apr-2019, 4:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeAZ

You are correct in your assessment that there is a cancellation effect
going on. You need to keep the two antennas separate all the way
to each tv. You can accomplish that by either using an A/B switch
or a separate tuner at each tv. You then need to readjust each antenna
because that cancellation could have caused mis-aiming.

We'll if IT'S A hi gain ANTENNA like the seller's LAB antennas Direct 91at
Is a hi gain ANTENNA manufactures say that DISTRIBUTION AMP
Can all so can cause the same problem they fight one other.

blackstone · 13-Apr-2019, 6:00 PM

Nascarken, unless I misunderstand you, I have separate feeds up to the distribution amp where they are combined.

This is how I have been doing it for almost a couple years and just now experiencing it.

Joe AZ, also, why is this just now manifesting?

Is it because of the new Channel Master?

When the Clearstream 5 from Antennas Direct was hooked up with the DB 8 E, it wasn't a problem.

JoeAZ · 13-Apr-2019, 8:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstone

Nascarken, unless I misunderstand you, I have separate feeds up to the distribution amp where they are combined.

This is how I have been doing it for almost a couple years and just now experiencing it.

Joe AZ, also, why is this just now manifesting?

Is it because of the new Channel Master?

When the Clearstream 5 from Antennas Direct was hooked up with the DB 8 E, it wasn't a problem.

Yes, more than likely. The Channel Master and Clearstream 5 are very
different antennas. How they interact with your DB8-E are also very
different when combined.

Nascarken · 13-Apr-2019, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeAZ

Yes, more than likely. The Channel Master and Clearstream 5 are very
different antennas. How they interact with your DB8-E are also very
different when combined.

Both antennas are hi gain ANTENNA 's

blackstone · 14-Apr-2019, 12:36 AM

Is there a plain old VHF antenna that won't cause this problem?
I don't think I want to monkey around with AB switches on every TV

blackstone · 14-Apr-2019, 1:33 AM

And to complicate things,(for me at least), the bedroom TV gets some of the stations I don't get on the living room TV.

They are both cheap Element tvs.

bobsgarage · 14-Apr-2019, 2:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstone

Is there a plain old VHF antenna that won't cause this problem?
I don't think I want to monkey around with AB switches on every TV

Hi, I've been reading your thread with some interest. I am by no means an expert. But the one thing I have learned in the past few years is combining antennas is usually unsuccessful. Combining a UHF antenna with a VHF antenna usually works well if you use a UVSJ combiner. Or a UHF / VHF combining amp like the RCA PREAMP 1R

Combining dissimilar antennas of the same band almost never works. Especially if they are pointing in different directions. in fact that's a double whammy.

Pointing two duplicate antennas in the same direction does work however. I had to prove it to myself and I can tell you that's the only way it seems to work.

Unfortunately, many people just don't know that that's how it is. I wouldn't say I learned the hard way because I ended up with two excellent arrays. I just can't combine them. Even when I do combine them I get most of my strong stations but I will lose the weaker ones. For example if I do a scan with the antennas combined, I will get about 80 stations. If I separate the antennas I will get about 97 stations a lot of them off the back side of the highly directional antennas.

BTW, instead of an A/B switch I use two different tuners and switch the inputs on the TV. I have my inputs labeled "Chicago" and "Milwaukee"

bobsgarage · 14-Apr-2019, 2:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackstone

Is there a plain old VHF antenna that won't cause this problem?
I don't think I want to monkey around with AB switches on every TV

a VHF only antenna? I highly recommend this Stellar labs 30 - 2476. It's an extremely well performing antenna and it's relatively inexpensive. As far as I know only one supplier sells it. I have two of them and I'm very satisfied with the durability, ease of assembly and performance.

https://www.newark.com/stellar-labs/...P_LastViewed_3

That Channel Master 5020 should be doing just fine with VHF. That's a very big antenna and has a large elements. Much larger elements than the Stellar labs VHF antenna. Which tells me the 5020 is VHF low too.

blackstone · 14-Apr-2019, 2:33 AM

Thanks, Bob, for your input.

I'm a techno-dunce and don't understand this stuff very much.

Do you have an example of a product that is a tuner so I could learn about them?

If I understand, my Channel Master and my DB 8 E are dissimilar antennas.

If I combine them with the right pre-amp I may have success?

Right now, my UHF antenna is powered with an Antennas Direct PA 18 UHF/VHF pre amp kit.
I'd had thought of connecting both antennas to it but didn't have the cables on hand when I hooked the antennas up

blackstone · 14-Apr-2019, 2:36 AM

I thought I liked the CM 5020 because I'm getting the stations I lost.
But with it messing up the other UHF stations I was looking at othjer solutions

Tim · 14-Apr-2019, 2:53 AM

Here's is a question for you: Are you using the CM5020 just for receiving VHF channels and the DB8E just for receiving UHF channels? If so, then you could combine them using a UVSJ combiner. If not, then you might could use a custom combiner designed for your specific channels. It all depends on which specific channels you want to receive on each antenna.

There is an eBay seller jan_jenca in Slovakia who custom makes the combiners at reasonable prices. I have ordered from him and was very pleased with the product. He also has a web site. http://www.antenne-komponenty.eu/eng...zlucovace.html