Reception in Toronto for Buffalo HD Channels

beach40 · 13-Apr-2011, 3:28 PM

Hello
What a great site this is! I live in downtown Toronto (M5T3K7 - College and Spadina) and face south which is were Buffalo is. I am on the 7th floor of a loft so I am around 60-70 feet above ground. I have a ClearStream Antenna C2 installed outside on the terrace and there is nothing obstructing it from facing Buffalo. There is no building in front of me in fact there is no building until you get to the lake and there are some other condos there but they are far away (1 km direct line of site). The CN tower is in clear and direct view where most of the Canadian Channels are transmitting from and I get all of them. I am pointing by antenna 160 degrees or so (magnetic) and scan for channels.

Here is my report:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...8d1708646dedb4

Here is what I get and don't get (note they are all in the same direction around 161 magnetic):

YES: NBC WGRZ Ch33 (2.1) NM=16.5
No: ABC WKBW Ch 38 (7.1) NM=17.8
No: CBS WIVB Ch 39 (4.1) NM=21.4
No PBS WNED Ch 43 (17.1) NM=30.9
YES: CW WNLO Ch 32 (23.1) NM=38.5

Some Canadian Ones which are all at the CN tower which is 1 km away are:
YES: CBC Ch 20 (5.1) NM=72.9
YES: OMN Ch 44 (44.1) NM=68.2
YES: CTV Ch 40 (9.1) NM=67.9
I also get these channels 64 (64.1), Ch 24 (25.1), Ch 65 (41.1), Ch 66 (66.1), Ch 53 (57.1)

I find it curious that I get the worst of the Buffalo channel 33 (NBC 2.1) and not the other ones.

Any ideas would be of great help.

(I know that signal strength is not the indicator of whether you get the channel coming in or not - Signal Quality actually is. Signal Quality is the ratio of Signal Strength vs background noise). I wonder if the channels that are so close on the CN tower are affecting some of these Buffalo channels by creating a large noise floor thus reducing the Buffalo Signal Quality?)

Thanks in advance for your help.

John Candle · 13-Apr-2011, 4:43 PM

Canada and the USA use the same transmission and reception - ATSC. Read and understand this about , Real Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , Virtual Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , Analog Tv Channels , http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=695. Here is some information about digital tv reception in Canada and USA , http://www.tvtechnology.com/117022 , http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/105462 , http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum , http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/home-accueil.htm , http://www.friends.ca , http://www.saveandreplay.com , http://www.trentondistributors.com

John Candle · 13-Apr-2011, 4:50 PM

Here are some free online Tv guides for Canada and USA , http://www.canada.com/entertainment/...ion/index.html , http://www.tvzap.com , http://tv.yahoo.com , http://www.entertainment.excite.com , http://www.television.aol.com , http://zap2it.com , http://www.titantv.com

John Candle · 13-Apr-2011, 4:59 PM

Here are digital to analog converters , if you or someone else needs to convert the digital tv transmissions for reception on a analog Tv , http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=380 . Here are NON amplified indoor Tv antennas , http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=233

beach40 · 13-Apr-2011, 5:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Candle

Here are some free online Tv guides for Canada and USA , http://www.canada.com/entertainment/...ion/index.html , http://www.tvzap.com , http://tv.yahoo.com , http://www.entertainment.excite.com , http://www.television.aol.com , http://zap2it.com , http://www.titantv.com

Thanks but I am not sure why you posted this here.

John Candle · 13-Apr-2011, 5:07 PM

You are very close to the CN Tower and EXTREMELY STRONG transmissions from the CN Tower , I am thinking about recommendations for reception of the Buffalo stations that are weaker in signal strength. Is the CN Tower between your reception location and the Buffalo stations??

beach40 · 13-Apr-2011, 5:10 PM

Yes John...The CN tower is south of me and past that is lake Ontario and across the lake is Buffalo.

John Candle · 13-Apr-2011, 5:15 PM

They apply because the information is about Tv transmission and reception. Also you are not the only question asker that comes to this forum that lives in Canada. So you are telling me that you do not need or want information that is practical and useful?? The limited thinking of people now days.

John Candle · 13-Apr-2011, 5:22 PM

Your reception location is being blasted with Extremely Strong transmissions from the CN Tower and the CN Tower is between your reception location and Buffalo , this situation is not good for the reception of the Buffalo stations. I am thinking about the reception situtation. And what to do about it.

beach40 · 13-Apr-2011, 5:23 PM

John
Your replies are for Analogue to Digital converters and Online TV Guides. My question had nothing to do with either.

GroundUrMast · 13-Apr-2011, 6:36 PM

Quote:

(I know that signal strength is not the indicator of whether you get the channel coming in or not - Signal Quality actually is. Signal Quality is the ratio of Signal Strength vs background noise). I wonder if the channels that are so close on the CN tower are affecting some of these Buffalo channels by creating a large noise floor thus reducing the Buffalo Signal Quality?)

You are quite correct, the overwhelming power of the signals from the close stations will make it difficult to receive weaker signals. The exact effect of these strong signals will vary from one tuner/receiver design to another.

A common effect of excessive signal levels will be that the circuitry inside the tuner will be forced into non-linear operation, (signals will be distorted) this results in separate frequencies being mixed together which generates sum and difference signals. If the distortion-generated-signals are in the same channel with a desired signal, the signal to noise ratio will be reduced.

Notice on your TV Fool report, the column Signal:Pwr(dBm); Eight signals are flagged in red, indicating they are likely to cause overloading of your receiver. This is not a guaranty that you will have trouble, but many receivers will.

An attenuator may help, but there is not much margin to work with... as you reduce the signal power of the strong stations, a simple attenuator will reduce the power of the weak stations also. With 15 dB of attenuation, the weak WGRZ signal will likely be on the edge, if not over.

TinLee.com may have some products that could attenuate individual channels... $$$$????

beach40 · 13-Apr-2011, 6:52 PM

Since I am not interested in Analogue signals I was thinking a little gadget to separate the VHF signals out from the UHF would help.

Do you have other ideas to filter out the really high signals or dampen them somewhat?

GroundUrMast · 13-Apr-2011, 7:03 PM

There is no passive filter that can sense the difference between analog and digital.

You can filter VHF (analog and digital VHF will be effected) with an inexpensive UVSJ.

Connect your antenna to the UHF port. Terminate the VHF port with a 75 ohm termination resistor. Connect the receiver to the common port.

Expect about 20 to 30 dB of attenuation of the VHF signals with this arrangement.

mtownsend · 13-Apr-2011, 7:04 PM

Yes, there are ways to cleanly separate VHF signals from UHF signals, however, some of the Canadian channels will be switching back to VHF channels after August, so you probably still want to keep your VHF capabilities.

Look at the "pending" results on your report and you can get a feel for what the channel line up might look like after August. This list includes records from the Canadian post-transition database.

Dave Loudin · 13-Apr-2011, 7:36 PM

Before you decide on investing any serious money, you should check out the reception results thread for your area within the OTA forum at digitalhome.ca. Someone there has bound to have dealt with the circumstances you face.