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Old 25-May-2011, 1:57 PM   #1
sportsfan
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Lost station

In the last week or so I have completely lost NBC, which had been a strong signal to our rooftop rotating antenna for years. I have recalibrated both our TVs and cannot come up with NBC (WNYT) out of Albany NY no matter what I do. I have a digital antenna (Winegaard?) which was added to my old analog antenna when things went digital. Is there anything I can do to bring in NBC with the equipment I have, or do you think WNYT has lowered their signal?

About this time each year we also lose ABC out of Albany (WTEN) and were told it was because of the leaves on the trees interfering with reception. YIKES! What gives?
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Old 25-May-2011, 3:42 PM   #2
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About this time each year we also lose ABC out of Albany (WTEN) and were told it was because of the leaves on the trees interfering with reception. YIKES! What gives?
Instead of trying to figure out the why's and wherefore's of what you're seeing, let's start from scratch.

Please send us the link to your tvfool report. Here's how: http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=4

Do you know the model number of your Winegard antenna? After that, do you have a preamplifier? Next how high is the antenna? Is the antenna outdoors?
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Old 25-May-2011, 3:45 PM   #3
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Two things would be quite helpful:

Please post a TV Fool report for your location... Interactive TV Maps

Can you provide a more detailed description of your existing antenna?
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Old 25-May-2011, 5:31 PM   #4
John Candle
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TV Antennas and Reception

As the other question askers do - post your radar report. Make the antenna height as high as the antenna is now. http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=4
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Old 25-May-2011, 10:27 PM   #5
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Thanks people who responded. Here is what I think you are looking for:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5747e4d3aac7e7

I do not know the model number of the Winegard antenna; think I threw out the box. The antenna is on the roof - is a Channel Master rotating system used here for years - and I would say about 30 feet up. I think I bought a preamplifier at Radio Shack and had a local guy install it, with a splitter in the cellar so that both my TV's would receive the digital signals.

Sorry this is so sketchy, but I am totally illiterate about antennas, TV's, digital signals, computers, etc...you get the picture. Basically this is all over my head (..no pun instended). Would appreciate any help you can give me. Thank you.
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Old 25-May-2011, 11:48 PM   #6
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By chance, does your antenna look like this?

Given your location, I am thinking that you would need a very large antenna such as the one I have provided the link for. The example antenna is 14 feet long.

Quote:
About this time each year we also lose ABC out of Albany (WTEN) and were told it was because of the leaves on the trees interfering with reception. YIKES! What gives?
Based on the information in your TV Fool Report, that diagnosis is not unreasonable.

I have a general idea of the terrain in the area around your location. Using the TVF Interactive Map tool, I can see that a few yards in any direction can make signal conditions better or worse in part due too changes in elevation. Though I don't know your exact location, it looks like you have neighbors on Huff Rd. who are up high on the hill. They have dramatically better signal conditions due to the 100 to 200 feet of added height. For Example

Can you consider installation of a tower or other major change to your installation?
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Last edited by GroundUrMast; 26-May-2011 at 12:16 AM.
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Old 26-May-2011, 1:47 PM   #7
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Thanks GroundUr. My antenna is probably about 12' but could be longer (it's hard to estimate from the ground with binoculars). But it doesn't look exactly like the one you pictured. The back end of mine has several single "poles" that come out from the main front/back piece at about 45 degree angles, not at a 90 degree angle as shown. They are also single rods, not double as it seems in your example.

One thing I did not mention before is that about three of these rods look bent - two are bent downward on one side and the other bent and slightly curved downward on the opposite side. I think the antenna might have been hit by Canadian geese or maybe a heavy bird was sitting on these rods or hit them in flight. Does this sound feasible, and would this effect the reception (bent rods).

We have never had any trouble receiving the signal from Channel 13 (NBC - WNYT) in Albany - either in the analog days or with digital. That's what is frustrating. Could it be that they have downgraded their signal or is it that trees/other obstructions have grown up over the last year to block reception. WNYT literally went blank in one day and we've never gotten it back. That led me to believe there was something wrong with their station's broadcast.:

You are correct about there being hills behind us that are quite high. I can easily see why those people have better reception. I can't believe the number of stations they receive given your chart...holy cow!

Not sure if I could install a tower. It would probably have to be out in a field near our house and wired inside. That means a lot of extra costs. Maybe I'd be better going with DirectTV or Dish, but don't really want monthly bills. Our choice of channels is now down 50% to CBS and FOX. In order to pick up NBC I can rotate the antenna 270 degrees but then have to recalibrate all the TV's which is a pain and takes time. (Still cannot get ABC) You can understand my frustration. Appreciate your input and if you have any other suggestions, please write back. (Is there a better, stronger antenna out there that I might have installed on the roof that would guraantee me receiving signals that might be slightly out of my range with the present setup?)

Also do you know of installers or people who work up on roofs with this type of antenna in this area? Can't seem to find anyone locally. Thank you.
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Old 26-May-2011, 2:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
...three of these rods look bent...
Bent rods will reduce the performance of the antenna. This is a possible reason for your loss of real channel 12, WNYT.

Quote:
...trees/other obstructions have grown up over the last year...
Vegetation absorbs energy the way food in a microwave oven does. That will leave less energy in the air for your antenna to receive.

Quote:
Is there a better, stronger antenna out there that I might have installed on the roof that would guarantee me receiving signals that might be slightly out of my range with the present setup?
The antenna you have now sounds like it was doing well when it was not bent. Your TV Fool Report shows WTEN (ABC) arriving at your location at very weak levels... Only the best antenna and some good fortune would give you reception of a signal that weak.

The Winegard HD8200 and Antennacraft HD1850 are similar antennas. Both are very large and are designed to receive real channel 2 through 69. These antennas would be options to replace your antenna if it's too worn. I would be uncomfortable suggesting that they would offer better performance than what you had.

If I were in your spot, I would be considering a Rohn-25 tower installation at least 60' high. Or, I would be looking at getting permission from a neighbor on a hill to install an antenna... that would require some fancy technology to link the signal down to your location though.

Have you inquired with satellite system installers?
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Last edited by GroundUrMast; 26-May-2011 at 3:21 PM.
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Old 26-May-2011, 3:18 PM   #9
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Does your antenna look like this?
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Old 26-May-2011, 3:40 PM   #10
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No Static: Yes, it looks more like that, than the Winegard that GroundUr showed me. The rods at the back of the antenna are all the same length however, and two on one side and one on the other are either pointing down or curved...possible bird damage? The front aspect looks similar but I think the rods holding the short cross pieces are shorter and maybe have a smaller angle between them. Have I confused you enough?

GrohndUR: thanks for the tips. We do pick up ABC in the Winter (also PBS) so I realize that a clearer path (atmosphere) from my house to the Albany area makes a big difference. I've checked with a Dish person who used to do antenna work, but he is so busy with his present job he has no time to work on this. Am now contacting my Hughes.net installer to see if he would help. Since I'm an old geezer I hate to get up on the roof, but may try that if all else fails. Maybe I could pop those bent rods back into place or straighten them out?

A tower installation is probably out of the question. We are not big TV watchers and if we were to get the major networks and PBS we would be satisfied. It's a real pain recalibrating the 2 TV's all the time, (one of which takes forever) but maybe that's all we can do. Who ever thought the gov't would take away our rights to pick up the major stations by going digital?

Just can't figure why NBC dropped out of sight after all these years?
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Old 26-May-2011, 5:02 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by sportsfan View Post
Would appreciate any help you can give me. Thank you.
I agree that trees are a likely culprit. I can't suggest an antenna that will magically solve your reception problem. A 60' tower may fix it, but 120' is where the signal strength jumps. That may sound high to most people, but I have my TV antenna at 120'.

The bent elements work mostly on WRGB on channel 6. Straightening them is unlikely to help WTEN on channel 26.

You could connect a converter box to the antenna that remains scanned on the Utica stations and keep the TV set itself scanned on the Albany stations.

Another option is a VHF only antenna (Winegard HD5030 or the VHF section of what you have) aimed at Albany with a UHF only antenna (Antennacraft U4000 or similar) aimed at WKTV. Combine them in a Channel Master 7777 preamp. (Which you may have already) That nets you everything but ABC with no rotor nor rescanning.

Last edited by Tower Guy; 26-May-2011 at 8:20 PM.
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Old 29-May-2011, 1:01 AM   #12
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Thanks, Tower Guy. (No power here for a couple of days due to terrible electrical storms, that's why I didn't post sooner.)

WTEN for us is channel 10, not 26, but maybe that distinction doesn't matter. We are picking up 6 (CBS) fine right now even with bent elements...no problem. I just thought maybe straightening them would help with NBC (13) which fell off the earth so suddenly.

Any kind of tower is not likely for us; we're not going to go to those extremes for a little TV. I would probably throw in the towel and go to a satellite dish or cable rather than erect a tower, but thanks for the suggestion.

Thanks, too, for all the antenna and converter box ideas, but you have to realize you are dealing with a dummy here. This is way over my head (again, no pun) and I would need some help to interpret all this info, but thanks. I can barely change a light bulb in my house
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Old 29-May-2011, 11:40 AM   #13
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WTEN for us is channel 10, not 26, but maybe that distinction doesn't matter. We are picking up 6 (CBS) fine right now even with bent elements...no problem.
My power went out Thursday evening too.

The digital signal for WTEN is actually on UHF channel 26.
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Old 29-May-2011, 5:30 PM   #14
sportsfan
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Fiddling with my rotor today I am able to pick up 13 (NBC - tennis) with only some slight feeeze-ups in the picture, so maybe their transmitter suffered some problems during all the recent electrical storms as well.

I have the antenna as close to 101 degrees (as suggested by TVFool) whereas before it was pointed at about 85 degrees. By tweaking the rotor maybe I'll be able to maintian connections with 13.

I thought I had a UHF antenna put in, but maybe I don't (?). This is the kind of thing I know nothing about. Basically I need help from an antenna guy or installer to make sure everything that can be done, is done, up on the roof.

Thanks for the help Tower Guy; I'll make note of the suggestion of digital channel 26 and see if I can bring it in.
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Old 30-May-2011, 11:50 PM   #15
John Candle
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TV Antennas and Reception

Read and understand this about , REAL Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , Virtual Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , Analog Broadcast Tv Channels , http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=695 . Virtual channel 10 is Real Channel 26. . Here is how to point Tv antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html

Last edited by John Candle; 30-May-2011 at 11:58 PM.
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Old 31-May-2011, 3:24 PM   #16
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Thank you, John. Your thread material is very helpful. It appears I have an All-Band UHF-VHF antenna, and I believe I am pointing it in the right direction for the stations I want.

By tweaking the rotor last night I was able to bring in NBC, but then later on "lost" it again. Maybe the vagaries of the weather, humidity and/or summer heat play a part in these interruptions? I'll just keep fooling around and hope to pick up more than CBS.

ABC and PBS seem to be "winter only" stations here, once the leaves drop.
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Old 31-May-2011, 5:02 PM   #17
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Thanks for the help Tower Guy; I'll make note of the suggestion of digital channel 26 and see if I can bring it in.
If you're watching WTEN you already are picking up channel 26. There's a signal inside the channel 26 transmitter that tells your TV set that you are watching channel 10.

Here is the complete list of virtual and actual channels.

WRGB CBS analog 6 digital 6
WTEN ABC analog 10 digital 26
WNYT NBC analog 13 digital 12
WMHT PBS analog 17 digital 34
WCDC ABC analog 19 digital 36
WXXA FOX analog 23 digital 7
WCWN CW analog 45 digital 43
WNYA MyN analog 51 digital 13
WYPX ION analog 55 digital 50
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