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Old 12-Oct-2012, 6:45 PM   #1
silencery
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17 miles out but no reception?

Hi TV Fool community,

Just stumbled across this great resource, and I'm hoping some of the experts here can help with suggestions.

Our house is in the southeastern part of Los Angeles county, and while we're not far out from the broadcasting towers, reception is quite limited. At the moment, I have a Channel Master CM2018 mounted in the attic, and we can receive channels 7.1-24.1 with it.

What I'm really looking for is a way to get reception for the major broadcasters for sports events (CBS - 2.1 & NBC - 4.1 in our area).

Here's the report for our location: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...2df93e26c0539c. It's worth noting our house is located on the base of a hill directly blocking line of sight to our broadcasting towers.

Any ideas would certainly be appreciated. Thanks.

Last edited by silencery; 12-Oct-2012 at 6:47 PM. Reason: Corrected title
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Old 12-Oct-2012, 8:29 PM   #2
John Candle
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To see if going higher with the antenna will help please make tvfool radar plot reports at , 25 , 40 , 60 , feet.

Last edited by John Candle; 13-Oct-2012 at 12:00 AM.
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Old 13-Oct-2012, 1:05 AM   #3
silencery
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Candle View Post
To see if going higher with the antenna will help please make tvfool radar plot reports at , 25 , 40 , 60 , feet.
Oh, of course. Good thinking.

Here's 25ft:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...2df9da3e7bb7ae

40ft:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...2df91c27d07a1e

60ft:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...2df900980878a2

For good measure, 120ft:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...2df90b670f880d

If I'm reading things correctly, it doesn't seem to make much of a difference in this case? Does that mean we're really bound to rely on no better options but cable/sat for local HD channels?

Last edited by silencery; 13-Oct-2012 at 1:13 AM.
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Old 13-Oct-2012, 6:00 AM   #4
GroundUrMast
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Are you willing to mount an antenna outside?

If we were neighbors, you would see an Antennas Direct 91XG UHF and Antennacraft Y10713 High-VHF above my roof. Each would be equipped with an Antennas Direct CPA19 preamp. The outputs of the two would combine using a UVSJ downstream of the power insertion blocks of each amplifier.
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Old 13-Oct-2012, 7:30 PM   #5
silencery
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GroundUrMast View Post
Are you willing to mount an antenna outside?

If we were neighbors, you would see an Antennas Direct 91XG UHF and Antennacraft Y10713 High-VHF above my roof. Each would be equipped with an Antennas Direct CPA19 preamp. The outputs of the two would combine using a UVSJ downstream of the power insertion blocks of each amplifier.
@GroundUrMast,

Thanks for the tips. An outside antenna is not out of the question.

I'm just concerned about wasting time and energy to set it up and having it not work. If i'm reading the charts right, it looks like even an outside mast at 30 ft (the tallest I can get it) wouldn't be much of a result. Is that right?
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Old 14-Oct-2012, 4:31 PM   #6
GroundUrMast
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I would expect the High-VHF signals would be the easiest. The UHF signals are weaker but still worth going after IMO.

Again, I'd spend my money on a couple of antennas and the preamps. If you're hesitant, try the Y10713 with no preamp, connected to just one TV. I expect you'll see the signals from KABC, KTTV, KCOP & KCAL.
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If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)

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Old 14-Oct-2012, 11:02 PM   #7
teleview
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Higher then the roof , form 25 to 30 feet above ground , try at about 25 feet or so first before going higher , there is very little improvement at 60 feet antenna height.

However Much improved signal strength at 120 feet antenna height.

Install a Winegard HD7084P antenna with a Kitz Tech KT-200-COAX TV Antenna Booster Remote Power Coax Fed.

Aim the HD7084P antenna at about 306 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

As always , the starting aim direction is the -> starting aim direction.

The aim direction can then be adjusted for best reception.

For 1 Tv connected use no splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a , HFS-2D , 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv's connected use a , HFS-3D , 3 way splitter.

Buy the HFS splitters at , http://www.hollandelectronics.com , http://www.solidsignal.com.

Here are some strong and sturdy antenna mounts , http://www.ronard.com/909911.html , http://www.ronard.com/34424560.html , http://www.ronard.com/ychim.html , http://www.ronard.com.

Buy the ronard antenna mounts at solidsignal by typing the word ronard in the solidsignal search box.

Here are some places to buy antennas and etc. , http://www.solidsignal.com , http://www.amazon.com , http://www.winegarddirect.com , http://www.kitztech.com.

As always , trees and tree leaves do a real fine job of reducing or blocking Tv reception and so do buildings and other obstructions.

It is best to install a antenna at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception.

The Tv/s Must Channel Scan for the Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , sometimes named the 'Air Channels' or 'Antenna Channels in the Tv setup menu because the Tv transmissions travel through the air from the transmitting antenna to the receiving antenna.

Do not channel scan for cable tv channels.

Last edited by teleview; 17-Oct-2012 at 9:30 AM.
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 6:41 PM   #8
silencery
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@GroundUrMast

Appreciate all the help and the suggestion on the Y10713.

Actually, with my existing CM2018 in the attic pointed at 306 degree magnetic compass direction, we do get KABC, KTTV, KCOP & KCAL beautifully. Unfortunately, the channels i'm trying to get are KCBS & KNBC.

@teleview
It seems 25ft is the highest mount limit for our home. I haven't checked, but i'm fairly certain the HOA would frown on a 120ft mount... haha. I just ran the 120ft test for the sake of comparison, but i'm wondering if that's really the only way we can get KCBS and KNBC?

I'll definitely research the kitztech. Sounds interesting.

Thanks!
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 9:37 PM   #9
GroundUrMast
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KCBS @ 25' AGL is just enough... I'd try

I posted a simple calculator tool at http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=109. Using a conservative gain value of 13 dBd for the 91XG and the noise and gain values of an Antennas Direct CPA-19, I get a net NM that is +1 dB.

I would love to see that number higher, but still, I would try for it.
Attached Images
File Type: png NM calculation for KCBS.png (75.8 KB, 321 views)
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 11:53 PM   #10
teleview
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Here is the Federal Antenna Law that says Yes you can , install , use , maintain , antennas above the roof of the house. And can be installed up to 12 feet above the highest part of the roof. However like I say , 25 feet or so to begin with. http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html.

Install the CM2018 antenna above the roof with the Kitz Tech , high gain , Ultra low noise amplifier.

I think you will be suprized by what is received and a better antenna such the HD7084P antenna will do even better.

The Tv transmissions are very weak at your location , so a high gain amplifier is required.

And the Kitz Tech amplifier is Ultra Low Noise. All electronic circuits generate electric/electronic noise. The noise 'masks' the signal , so less noise means more usable signal. The Kitz Tech amplifier has the least amount of noise , compared to , Antennas Direct , Winegard , Channel Master and etc.

Last edited by teleview; 17-Oct-2012 at 12:36 AM.
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Old 16-Oct-2012, 6:00 PM   #11
silencery
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Thanks again for all the help! I definitely appreciate it and will write back with results once we have a chance to try out some of your suggestions.

Wish us luck!
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