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Old 8-Dec-2014, 11:35 AM   #1
coggsnyrnyg
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Any ideas to pick up fox?

Here is my report:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d2436ec4d9f6a0

I am using the Mohu Sky 60. Have it mounted to the side of my house which faces the Empire State Building. Every channel comes in great, WWOR comes in shaky, and Fox is terrible. NFL games were unwatchable on both the High Def and Std Def channel. I was using a 4-way splitter with an amp, this morning before leaving for work, switched it to Mohu's 4-way booster/splitter. Any ideas on how to get a better signal?
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Old 8-Dec-2014, 12:33 PM   #2
Jake V
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The Mohu Sky 60 is an antenna with a built in amplifier. Are you really adding a 4 way splitter with another amplifier? Or are you referring to the amp power supply that comes with the Mohu? An extra amplifier might not be necessary with those strong signals.

The first thing I would do would be to check all the connections to make sure they are nice and tight. A loose connection can make some channels go from strong reception quality to poor reception quality.

Next I would bypass the splitter and second amplifier and connect the Mohu Sky directly to one television. If that brings in Fox and WWOR and all the other stations you want then you know the antenna is sufficient (if the amplifier and splitter are located together this can typically be done using a female-to-female coax connector, which is probably about $2). If this brings in Fox and WWOR then it might be a matter of 1) not using the second amplifier or 2) using a different splitter (check both your extra amplifier and splitter and post the part numbers here).

What direction is the Mohu Sky antenna is pointing to? The flat side should be facing about 47 degrees using a compass (roughly northeast). The manufacturer suggests its an omnidirectional antenna but really it is not.

If you have a clear line of sight from the north to the east it seems that you should be getting all the stations in green and most of the stations in yellow.

Last edited by Jake V; 8-Dec-2014 at 12:38 PM.
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Old 8-Dec-2014, 1:49 PM   #3
coggsnyrnyg
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I am using another amplifier. I was originally using the Mohu 4-way splitter/Jolt: http://store.gomohu.com/jolt-4-way-a...amplifier.html

However, it died after about a week. While waiting for a new one, bought another 4-way from home depot with the amp (don't know the name off top of my head). I have 2 tvs currently, getting a 3rd in a few weeks and a 4th probably within a year. Both tv's are located in the front of the house, and there is a decent run of cable from the antenna. About 60 feet to one and 75 to the other.

Last week, Giants game would not come in at all on 5-1 (HD Fox), but was fine on the SD Fox (5-3). Yesterday, it was unwatchable on both channels and both tv's. the 4pm fox game as well was a nightmare.

Mohu sent me a new 4-way splitter/Jolt, quickly installed it this morning and removed the home depot splitter. On the downstairs tv, was able to get 5-3, but not 5-1. Only watched for about 5 minutes before I had to leave. When I get home tonight, will try disconnecting the splitter and using a female to female to test it on a direct run.

I have not checked the angle of the antenna. Just put it up, tested it, everything seemed ok, so left it.

I pick up 61 channels, the main channels get a great reception, but just not fox.

Connections were all tight, but will check them again.

Thank you for info and suggestions.
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Old 8-Dec-2014, 2:12 PM   #4
Jake V
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I'd check the direction of the antenna next.

Use a compass to verify that the flat side is facing northeast (47 degrees).

If you don't have a compass handy, do this:

1. Go to http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?opti...pper&Itemid=90
2. Enter your address and click "Map This".
3. Near the top right of the map click on "Satellite".
4. Near the top left zoom in as far as you can.
5. Click on "Show lines pointing to each transmitter" just below the map on the right side of the screen.
6. The map will display green lines. Use the one heading northeast to identify landmarks in the northeast to help you point the flat surface of the Mohu Sky in that direction.

This will not be perfect, of course, but should help you determine if you are roughly pointing in a northeasterly direction.
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Old 8-Dec-2014, 2:24 PM   #5
coggsnyrnyg
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Thanks. Will try turning antenna.
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Old 8-Dec-2014, 2:25 PM   #6
timgr
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You understand that the virtual channels come in on the same frequency, from the same real channel? It's unlikely that you would be able to receive 5.1 and not 5.3, or vice-versa. So you must be right on the cusp of reception... maybe there is something about your TV's tuner that allows the SD version and not the HD version at low signal levels.

Yes, get your compass and aim right at 47 degrees magnetic. And remove the splitter. The passive splitter does not degrade the signal very much, but does divide it in half, so that cable losses and tuner sensitivity become more of an issue.

Adding a second amplifier, like the Jolt, is a weird and sub-optimal solution IMO... though I understand that it's Mohu that designed it this way. Normally you'd put the antenna amplifier as close to the antenna as possible, using a mast-mounted (internal to the antenna in your case) amplifier. That is where the antenna signal is strongest, and degraded the least by the cable losses. This means that the added amplifier noise is the smallest possible fraction of the total signal, and gives you a lot of signal voltage before it's cut down by the cables and any splitters.

Another possibility - your antenna may be in a local null for Fox. Look at this site http://www.hdtvprimer.com/antennas/siting.html and it will give you an idea of how these local nulls can arise due to ground and building reflections: "multipath." Changing the location of your antenna by a few feet may move you out of that null. But aim it first.

Good luck!
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Old 8-Dec-2014, 2:33 PM   #7
coggsnyrnyg
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No, did not realize they are on the same frequency. There is definitely a difference in the tv's. The upstairs tv, the picture was coming in choppy and scrambled. Similar to the old cable boxes (3 rows of channels and the buttons to push), if you pushed on a channel you didn't have. The downstairs tv, it either comes in or the screen goes black and I get a message about not having a signal. Anything more than minimal interference, the screen goes black.

I will check out that site, too.

thank you
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Old 8-Dec-2014, 3:49 PM   #8
coggsnyrnyg
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Actually, on the upstairs tv, I get TWO 5-3's. One says WNYWDT, one says WNYW. One doesn't show up on the guide. Last week, it was the 2nd 5-3 that I was able to watch. This week, all were unwatchable. On the downstairs tv, only get one 5-3.

I also have an OTA Tivo attached, with the cable from the splitter running into the tivo and then the upstairs tv, if that matters.
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Old 8-Dec-2014, 4:14 PM   #9
timgr
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I'd suggest you get a new, long cable and run your antenna directly into one of the TVs. The Tivo has a tuner that is receiving and storing the TV data. I believe the Tivo then streams the TV data to your TVs in its original form, where it is then decoded by your TV tuner (set to a specific channel?). So you have two tuners in the signal path ... unless the Tivo streams to the HDMI port or something like that.

Whichever, I'd eliminate as many variables as possible, then start adding stuff step by step.
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Old 8-Dec-2014, 4:16 PM   #10
coggsnyrnyg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timgr View Post
I'd suggest you get a new, long cable and run your antenna directly into one of the TVs. The Tivo has a tuner that is receiving and storing the TV data. I believe the Tivo then streams the TV data to your TVs in its original form, where it is then decoded by your TV tuner (set to a specific channel?). So you have two tuners in the signal path ... unless the Tivo streams to the HDMI port or something like that.

Whichever, I'd eliminate as many variables as possible, then start adding stuff step by step.
Using the HDMI output of the tivo to the TV.
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Old 8-Dec-2014, 4:29 PM   #11
tomfoolery
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coggsnyrnyg View Post
Actually, on the upstairs tv, I get TWO 5-3's. One says WNYWDT, one says WNYW. One doesn't show up on the guide. Last week, it was the 2nd 5-3 that I was able to watch. This week, all were unwatchable. On the downstairs tv, only get one 5-3.
Any chance that tv is set to 'cable' rather than 'OTA' or 'Antenna'?
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Old 8-Dec-2014, 4:32 PM   #12
coggsnyrnyg
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Originally Posted by tomfoolery View Post
Any chance that tv is set to 'cable' rather than 'OTA' or 'Antenna'?
Both set to antenna or air. Checked that.
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Old 8-Dec-2014, 6:10 PM   #13
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You should absolutely NOT be using two amplifiers. Heck, you don't even need one with signals that strong. Amplifying signals that are already strong is usually an open invitation to amplifier or tuner overload which results in LESS reception, not more.

If your Sky 60 uses the indoor amp that's white and cylindrical, be advised it's really not a very good amp (easy to overload, much higher gain than advertised, no filtering in spite of advertising), especially when compared to Jolt's older indoor amp that was in a black metal case. That's what happens when Walmart beats up on you to reduce costs.
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Old 9-Dec-2014, 2:04 PM   #14
coggsnyrnyg
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After work yesterday, went home and had about a half hour to play around with antenna before going out for the night. Got a compass from work, but it was very hard to use. Moved antenna based on the suggestion above about the landmarks on the map, and the compass. But, couldn't tell if I was exactly 47 degrees. Downloaded a compass to my phone, closest I could get was 49, so tried it. Fox came in great on both HD and SD. However, by the time I could actually test it, only had about 5 minutes to watch before I had to leave.

This morning, Checked downstairs tv, HD wouldn't come in at all, SD was fine. Also looked up the channels and here is what my tv said. However, it was pouring this morning. Would heavy rain impact the signal?

5-1 is WNYWDT, frequency of 44 (HD Fox)
5-2 is a Movies channel also frequency of 44.
5-3 is WNYWDT-3 SD Fox on frequency of 44.
the other 5-3 (yes, my upstairs tv is getting two 5-3's) is WNYW SD on a frequency of 38. These four all come in on my upstairs tv (this is the one closer to the antenna, and amp, and connected to the tivo.

Downstairs, the tuner is not picking up 5-3, WNYWDT-3 at all. When I go to 5-3, it says, "WNYW-SD", the channel that the upstairs tv is saying is frequency 38. Probably explains why it comes in when the HD on 5-1 doesn't.

Another thing is 5-3 on frequency 44 hasn't come in at all upstairs.

I did not have time to try anything else like disconnecting the splitter or tivo. Will try tonight.

thank you everyone for the input.

Last edited by coggsnyrnyg; 9-Dec-2014 at 2:08 PM.
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Old 9-Dec-2014, 2:07 PM   #15
coggsnyrnyg
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Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
You should absolutely NOT be using two amplifiers. Heck, you don't even need one with signals that strong. Amplifying signals that are already strong is usually an open invitation to amplifier or tuner overload which results in LESS reception, not more.

If your Sky 60 uses the indoor amp that's white and cylindrical, be advised it's really not a very good amp (easy to overload, much higher gain than advertised, no filtering in spite of advertising), especially when compared to Jolt's older indoor amp that was in a black metal case. That's what happens when Walmart beats up on you to reduce costs.
Honestly, not sure if there is an amp built into the antenna or not. Was reading the manual and it said I could use the splitter and it would be good for an additional 30 feet. I used the amp from Home Depot because I knew I was going to have more than a 30 foot cable. Worked, except for this one channel.

Yes, using the white jolt amp now, on my second as the original died after about a week. Do you think I would be better off just using a basic splitter? Can pick one up at radio shack on my way home today.
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Old 9-Dec-2014, 2:34 PM   #16
tomfoolery
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If the Sky has an amp, and it's not being powered (is there a separate power inserter for it?), then it's probably blocking a lot of signal.

With such a strong report, you'd probably get everything you want with just an HBU11 or ANT751r or CS2V and no amp. But since you already have the Mohu, I think you need to investigate if/how it's getting powered.
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Old 9-Dec-2014, 2:46 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by coggsnyrnyg View Post
Honestly, not sure if there is an amp built into the antenna or not. Was reading the manual and it said I could use the splitter and it would be good for an additional 30 feet. I used the amp from Home Depot because I knew I was going to have more than a 30 foot cable. Worked, except for this one channel.

Yes, using the white jolt amp now, on my second as the original died after about a week. Do you think I would be better off just using a basic splitter? Can pick one up at radio shack on my way home today.
Reading the instructions on the Mohu site, they clearly label an external component as the amplifier. The amplifier looks like the size and shape of a balun - maybe it's just the power injector, and the amplifier is actually in the antenna body. They also suggest that you connect their 30' cable to the antenna, and locate the amplifer at the end of that 30' cable. The amplifier must be powered by the USB cable attached to it, either by plugging in to a USB port or using the supplied power cube.

Placing the amplifier next to the TV seems strange, as I've described above.

To me, the amplifier seems like a gimmick, considering it's far away from the signal source. You have plenty of signal in the air. With any of the other antennas that were mentioned, you should not need an amplifier even with 60' of cable. Leave out the amplifier, connect the antenna directly to the TV, and see what you get.

Last edited by timgr; 9-Dec-2014 at 2:51 PM.
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Old 9-Dec-2014, 2:58 PM   #18
coggsnyrnyg
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Originally Posted by timgr View Post
Reading the instructions on the Mohu site, they clearly label an external component as the amplifier. The amplifier looks like the size and shape of a balun - maybe it's just the power injector, and the amplifier is actually in the antenna body. They also suggest that you connect their 30' cable to the antenna, and locate the amplifer at the end of that 30' cable. The amplifier must be powered by the USB cable attached to it, either by plugging in to a USB port or using the supplied power cube.

Placing the amplifier next to the TV seems strange, as I've described above.

To me, the amplifier seems like a gimmick, considering it's far away from the signal source. You have plenty of signal in the air. With any of the other antennas that were mentioned, you should not need an amplifier even with 60' of cable. Leave out the amplifier, connect the antenna directly to the TV, and see what you get.
That is how it is set-up. The antenna outside, their cable connected directly to the antenna coming into the house. then connected to some more cable with a female-to-female, then the mohu splitter/amp. The amp is not next to the tv, but in the same room with another cable connecting the amp to the tivo, then the tivo to the tv.

There is no separate power source for the antenna. Only thing plugged in is the splitter/amp.
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Old 9-Dec-2014, 3:07 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by coggsnyrnyg View Post
... The amp is not next to the tv, but in the same room with another cable connecting the amp to the tivo, then the tivo to the tv. ...
Understood ... by "next to the TV" I mean not up on the mast next to the antenna.
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Old 9-Dec-2014, 5:02 PM   #20
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The amplifier looks like the size and shape of a balun - maybe it's just the power injector, and the amplifier is actually in the antenna body.
Nope, that's the amp itself, it doesn't use a power injector in the coax line. It's powered from either a USB port or from a wall-wart that the USB-ended cable plugs into. You can always use the wall-wart to charge your cell phone if you supply your own cable, it's just a common 5V USB supply.
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