TV Fool  

Go Back   TV Fool > Over The Air Services > Special Topics > Antennas

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 6-Jul-2014, 5:57 AM   #1
ZippyTheChicken
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 59
I need good plans for a long range VHF/UHF Antenna

hi .. for a long time i have been considering getting off of cable .. well I will have cable internet because there is nothing else but dialup here and I will have an antenna for television supplemented by free hulu or youtube or individual tv stations that broadcast the news.

I purchased an antenna off of Amazon and I got really great results with it considering its size, quality and cost. The name of it is .. Esky HG-981 so you can look it up for reference.

I get tv signal from 3 different directions here in delaware. as you may know delaware is very flat and there are barely any trees but i do get blocked by neighbor's homes since I am in a 1 story and many of them are 2 story and we do have a small hill near I would say 100 or so feet tall.. but I can get pretty decent signals in clear or moderate clouds .. i have not tested in a full rain storm yet.


OK SO

55 miles to the north i get most of my channels from phillly
40 miles to the west i pickup a handful in Baltimore
50 miles south I pickup 2 stations

I would like to receive all of these stations at the same time so that I can feed the bunch to a few tvs in the home over my installed Cable TV lines .. reserving one for cable modem which will be the only one actually connected to the CableTV Provider ..

I don't want to deal with the screaming matches that a rotator will cause when someone wants to turn the antenna and others don't

I understand to distribute through the home i might have to use a distribution amp if a splitter takes too much signal from the main feed.

The antenna that I have now is great for someone in an apartment where they can toss it out when they move or keep it maybe ..

But its slightly rinkydink if i expect it to last for 15 years or more.. without its amp it gets no signal and I don't think its going to survive 15 years being on 24/7.

BUT i am seriously happy with it because if the decision comes quick to shut off cable tv I won't be hunting for an antenna i can click that thing on and get TV to two tvs and point it in one direction.

------------------------

SO I need plans for building an antenna that can get near fringe distance reception in 3 directions.

I was looking at the 8 bay bow tie ones and the larger 8 to 12 foot channel master and other brand directional antennas but because my attic has trusses it could be difficult getting the correct orientation...

an 8 bay might work but I was looking at the Channel Master (CM-4228HD) says 75 miles and it only gets HighBand VHF starting and VHF is at a shorter distance.


For Materials i have a friend that worked a concert with camping here recently and he let me harvest tent poles and chair rods...

Everything is steel tubing with paint.
I have about a dozen 1 inch by 4 foot long tent poles
and about 3 dozen half inch by 2.5 foot long tubes from chairs.

however i do have a couple beach chairs that are aluminum so I have some 1 inch tube but its bent in square shapes about 2 foot square .. you know how beach chairs with the woven webing is.


Anyway i got the summer.. i got the tubes and i got a 300 ohm balum from lowes for $5 so I figure i should give this a try...


What do you guys think?

I need something thats really going to work and I do not want to deal with funky YouTube how tos that are some guy with coat hangers ...

I figure if the big antenna manufacturers thought a couple coat hangers would bring in 60 + mile range including channels 2 through 62 they would make antennas that way ..


So i need 3 ... i need real detailed dimensions...
I need to make it so i can get all the signals and if they don't overlap which i am pretty sure they don't .. i want to have one cable down to a distribution amp or a 6way splitter..

any help is appreciated
reliable plans with dimensions for a long distance antenna REALLY APPRECIATED.. heh

thanks ..

I hope I can help others while I get this working.

Last edited by ZippyTheChicken; 6-Jul-2014 at 6:00 AM. Reason: explain detail
ZippyTheChicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7-Jul-2014, 4:48 AM   #2
analogqueen
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZippyTheChicken View Post
hi .. for a long time i have been considering getting off of cable .. well I will have cable internet because there is nothing else but dialup here and I will have an antenna for television supplemented by free hulu or youtube or individual tv stations that broadcast the news.

I purchased an antenna off of Amazon and I got really great results with it considering its size, quality and cost. The name of it is .. Esky HG-981 so you can look it up for reference.

I get tv signal from 3 different directions here in delaware. as you may know delaware is very flat and there are barely any trees but i do get blocked by neighbor's homes since I am in a 1 story and many of them are 2 story and we do have a small hill near I would say 100 or so feet tall.. but I can get pretty decent signals in clear or moderate clouds .. i have not tested in a full rain storm yet.


OK SO

55 miles to the north i get most of my channels from phillly
40 miles to the west i pickup a handful in Baltimore
50 miles south I pickup 2 stations

I would like to receive all of these stations at the same time so that I can feed the bunch to a few tvs in the home over my installed Cable TV lines .. reserving one for cable modem which will be the only one actually connected to the CableTV Provider ..

I don't want to deal with the screaming matches that a rotator will cause when someone wants to turn the antenna and others don't

I understand to distribute through the home i might have to use a distribution amp if a splitter takes too much signal from the main feed.

The antenna that I have now is great for someone in an apartment where they can toss it out when they move or keep it maybe ..

But its slightly rinkydink if i expect it to last for 15 years or more.. without its amp it gets no signal and I don't think its going to survive 15 years being on 24/7.

BUT i am seriously happy with it because if the decision comes quick to shut off cable tv I won't be hunting for an antenna i can click that thing on and get TV to two tvs and point it in one direction.

------------------------

SO I need plans for building an antenna that can get near fringe distance reception in 3 directions.

I was looking at the 8 bay bow tie ones and the larger 8 to 12 foot channel master and other brand directional antennas but because my attic has trusses it could be difficult getting the correct orientation...

an 8 bay might work but I was looking at the Channel Master (CM-4228HD) says 75 miles and it only gets HighBand VHF starting and VHF is at a shorter distance.


For Materials i have a friend that worked a concert with camping here recently and he let me harvest tent poles and chair rods...

Everything is steel tubing with paint.
I have about a dozen 1 inch by 4 foot long tent poles
and about 3 dozen half inch by 2.5 foot long tubes from chairs.

however i do have a couple beach chairs that are aluminum so I have some 1 inch tube but its bent in square shapes about 2 foot square .. you know how beach chairs with the woven webing is.


Anyway i got the summer.. i got the tubes and i got a 300 ohm balum from lowes for $5 so I figure i should give this a try...


What do you guys think?

I need something thats really going to work and I do not want to deal with funky YouTube how tos that are some guy with coat hangers ...

I figure if the big antenna manufacturers thought a couple coat hangers would bring in 60 + mile range including channels 2 through 62 they would make antennas that way ..


So i need 3 ... i need real detailed dimensions...
I need to make it so i can get all the signals and if they don't overlap which i am pretty sure they don't .. i want to have one cable down to a distribution amp or a 6way splitter..

any help is appreciated
reliable plans with dimensions for a long distance antenna REALLY APPRECIATED.. heh

thanks ..

I hope I can help others while I get this working.
Have you seen this from avsforum?
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/186-co...rectional.html

your best bet I think would be to bear down and purchase this bi-directional (or similar)
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...u=700112818417

you would need a combiner to use 2 separate antennas to one coax though and those combiners run about 10$.

Another option- antenna rotator. Solid Signal has them $119.

You can call them for assistance too! Call: 1-877-312-4547

since you have dial up (been there!) instead of conveniently browsing the web at lightning speeds like most of us take for granted.

I am rather a beginner myself so maybe others have some advice for you.

PS the coat hanger DIY antenna is not bad at all- but it is only UHF. If you tell us where you are located perhaps someone here can do a search for you to find what stations you can receive and what antenna is best (obviously dont post your home address but maybe your zip code or one that is comparable nearby)

OK you did say OMNI directional - I recommended bi directional- let me tell you to "make your own" omni directional antenna I hope you have a degree in RF technology or are a telecom engineer? Because thats about what you'd need to have to do what you want, practically. You may be better off just getting a rotator.
analogqueen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8-Jul-2014, 12:33 AM   #3
ZippyTheChicken
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 59
thanks for your reply

umm yeah like I said I will probably keep CableTV Internet because dialup is my only other choice here and I am not going back to dialup since I work online.

Also as I said a Rotator is not going to work I want all the channels available at all times for different tvs to watch without fights over the antenna.

I know some of the models that look like 8bay antennas do allow 2 directions by rotating the BBQ grill type reflectors .. I am not convinced that design can get me the distance though...

Distance 55 miles .. wanted channels 2 through 69 .. signals from 3 directions want single antenna design I can make that does not require an amp but could benefit from an amp .. i want some signal just incase the amp dies...

anyway its a lot to ask especially since its an attic location not outside...



But what I really need is plan details with measurements for building an antenna that can get channels 2 through 69 out of some steel tent and chair poles that I recently acquired.


something that can get 60 miles .. not a coat hanger on a piece of 2x4 that will bring in stations 10 - 20 miles away because i don't have stations that close heh..


anyway

thank you again

btw not to be harsh but did you actually read my very long post that I thought was extremely detailed... or did you just skim it for keywords and reply with whatever you wanted .. heheheheh ...

thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by analogqueen View Post
Have you seen this from avsforum?
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/186-co...rectional.html

your best bet I think would be to bear down and purchase this bi-directional (or similar)
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...u=700112818417

you would need a combiner to use 2 separate antennas to one coax though and those combiners run about 10$.

Another option- antenna rotator. Solid Signal has them $119.

You can call them for assistance too! Call: 1-877-312-4547

since you have dial up (been there!) instead of conveniently browsing the web at lightning speeds like most of us take for granted.

I am rather a beginner myself so maybe others have some advice for you.

PS the coat hanger DIY antenna is not bad at all- but it is only UHF. If you tell us where you are located perhaps someone here can do a search for you to find what stations you can receive and what antenna is best (obviously dont post your home address but maybe your zip code or one that is comparable nearby)

OK you did say OMNI directional - I recommended bi directional- let me tell you to "make your own" omni directional antenna I hope you have a degree in RF technology or are a telecom engineer? Because thats about what you'd need to have to do what you want, practically. You may be better off just getting a rotator.
ZippyTheChicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8-Jul-2014, 12:53 PM   #4
tonyp063
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 47
First thing you need to do is go to the main page of this site & go to the Start Maps function.
http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?opti...pper&Itemid=90

switcth to satellite view & move the locator to your exact location. Then use the Create Radr Plot fuction.
Post the resulting url here so we can see your actual anticipated signals & strengths (don't worry. It will obfuscate your actual location for privacy)
Then we can mak some possible suggestions.

Realistically, I know of *no* design or plan the will be omni-directional & function on all 3 TV bands.
We may be able to come up with a 2 antenna solution & a combiner that will eliminate the need for a rotor though
tonyp063 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-Jul-2014, 6:29 AM   #5
ZippyTheChicken
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 59
that form does not work in FireFox and when i click save image its a zero sized .png file.


but anyway
this might help


TV Network - Distance - Broadcast Method - dB
CBS 56.2* 1Edge* 22.2
ION 56.3* 1Edge* 22.2
NBC 56.3* 1Edge* 22.1
56.3* 2Edge* 21.8
MyN 56.2* 2Edge* 19
Ind 56.3* 1Edge* 18.8
CW 56.3* 1Edge* 17.8
ABC 56.4* 2Edge* 17.7
51.0* 2Edge* 17.1
Fox 56.2* 1Edge* 15.8
Ind 56.3* 1Edge* 15
Uni 56.3* 1Edge* 14.9
Religious 56.3* 1Edge* 14.8
TELEMUNDO 51.0* 2Edge* 13.9
PBS 56.2* 2Edge* 13.3
PBS 50.6* 2Edge* 10.9
NBC 45.2* 2Edge* 9.4
CBS/FOX 53.0* 2Edge* 9.1
ABC/CW 53.7* 2Edge* 2.8
PBS 42.6* 2Edge* 0.3

Last edited by ZippyTheChicken; 10-Jul-2014 at 6:33 AM.
ZippyTheChicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-Jul-2014, 6:40 AM   #6
ZippyTheChicken
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 59
I have been looking at the 8 bay antennas but the designs i have seen are for UHF and sometimes High VHF and UHF...

I have a lot of materials to make an antenna and would like to find some good tested plans for an antenna that can get 60 + miles even for low VHF because one channel 6 ABC is 55 miles away and they broadcast on VHF 6 not a higher UHF actual.

I am trying to figure out the size of the dipoles for vhf and they seem to be in the 30 inch range.. vs the 8bay antennas that are 6 to 8 inches.

I do have more design questions once i get started...

When I say 60 miles for vhf low high and UHF ... from 2 to 69 I expect to use a preamp
ZippyTheChicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-Jul-2014, 2:52 AM   #7
tonyp063
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 47
First & foremost. You need to remember that an amp will only *push* signal through the cable. It will *not* help the antenna suck in more signal That's not the way it works.

The other point. VHF means both Hi-VHF ( 7-13) and Lo-VHF (2-6)
Look at the frequency charts & the various dipole calculators. The numbers you mentioned ( 6 & 31") are correct for uhf & hvhf, but the lo-vhf stuff from Philly is going to require a dipole roughly 9 feet across for channel 2.
You simply can't fight physics, no matter how hard you try.

Gain in any one direction will be offset be loss in a different direction.
Elements resonate & receive at a certain size. Other sizes are *significantly* less efficiant.

Agaian. we really need a link to your tvfool report.
tonyp063 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Jul-2014, 4:13 PM   #8
ZippyTheChicken
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 59
thank you for your reply

Actually I do get signal for about 36 stations in philly but not channel 6 which is ABC and is a pretty good channel.. I think I can get ABC from Baltimore it is Channel 2 not sure if its actual channel 2.

I will try again with that form but it is not working in FireFox

My Zip Code is 19977 if you want to see if that works for you.


The channel list that I can receive is as follows

D-3-1 CBS Philly
D-3-2 CBS Philly All news
D-10-1 NBC Philly
D-10-2 COZI
D-17-1 WPHL DT
D-17-2 forgot to write it down
D-17-3 THIS
D-17-4 Tango Traffic
D-23-1 WNJS in and out signal shows in TV lineup
D-23-3 No Signal shows in TV lineup
D-29-1 WXTF
D-29-2 MOVIES!
D-29-3 Mundo FX
D-35-1 MINO
D-35-1 MIND
D-35-2 NKH WRLD
D-35-3 F24 France
D-35-4 RT Russian
D-35-5 Korea Today
D-48-1 TBN
D-48-2 Church Channel
D-48-3 Juce TV
D-48-4 ENLACE Spanish
D-48-5 SOAC
D-51-1 WTVE
D-51-2 WTVE TheWorks
D-51-3 VIETV
D-57-1 TheCWPhilly
D-61-1 ION
D-61-2 QUBO
D-61-3 ION Life
D-61-4 Shop CSN TV
D-61-5 HSN
D-61-6 QVC
D-62-1 WUVP Spanish
D-62-2 WFPA -CA Spanish
D-62-3 Get TV

The Above List is from Philly and I receive them on the
Antenna I purchased on Amazon but it does not pick up any channels
if the Amp is OFF and the antenna is directly connected to the TV

I also Pickup WBOC to the south and one of their sub channels
I also Pickup a few channels in Baltimore but i did not write which ones down.


I probably pick up a few more channels if i can fine tune the direction of the antenna I ordered a Digital Compass from Amazon for $4 and it should get here at the end of the week or next week..

The test was done on a cloudless day and then again on a partly cloudy day without heavy dark clouds or active rain.. I need to test again when it rains.

The Antenna was pointed through a closed window with with a nylon not metal screen .. windows on two sides of the home can give me direction north on one side and West and South pretty well on the other.

The antenna I want to make will be placed in my attic.

This is the antenna I am using now
Esky HG-981 Remote Controlled Amplified VHF UHF Outdoor HDTV Hd Rotor Tv Antenna 360 Rotation

http://www.amazon.com/Esky-Controlle...s=hdtv+antenna

The Rotor works but is useless because it is not accurate.

The antenna is mostly plastic with what seems to be one active aluminum dipole with reflectors on the back and what I am assuming are 6 sets of directors that are suppose to guide signal into the single dipole that is at the back of the array of what looks like rectangular dipoles but they are not connected and are mounted in plastic so you tell me .. I understand they are used to direct signal into a dipole.. if not they are a large waste of materials heh...



The image is slightly deceiving you are seeing 2 amps but they are showing the front and back of a single amp box that you receive .. there does not seem to be a pre-amp on the actual antenna..

The Gain for this antenna is stated at 36dB .. I believe it is at least generating actual 16dB but I have no way to test.

again with antenna directly connected i get no actual channels with the Amp on I get quite a few.. there is about 35 feet of what they say is RG6 between the Antenna and the Amp .. it seems a bit thin for RG6 and some people have suggested replacing it but that may require breaking the antenna housing to access the end connector .. that is if it is a connector and not hard soldered.

I hope that might help
ZippyTheChicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-Jul-2014, 4:56 PM   #9
tonyp063
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 47
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e1c69e2ce44011

That's a generic report for your zipcode assuming 20 feet high & mounted outside.
Look at the second column (Real) which shows the actual frequency the station is broadcasting on, *not* what displyas on your TV.

If it were me, I'd build a 4-bay bowtie with reflector and aim it at magnetic 45 degrees. Use an RCA TVPRAMP1R Antenna Pre-Amplifier
Once you see what that gives you I would consider an identical antenna aimed at magnetic 280 degrees.
Connect both antennas, using *identical* lengths of rg-6, to a reversed splitter & then to the amp. Make sure the input switch is set to "combined" & the FM trap is set to on.

This *may* work well, or it *may* fail spectacularly. In which case it would be time for a rotor or 2 seperate dowmleads & a A/B switch.

One of the regular, highly respected posters on this & other forums, holl_ands, has done some excellent work in modelling antennas & has design diagrams & calculated results available at his website.

I'd suggest you start with this one.
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/mult...0grid40x34refl

Channel 6 in Philly is going to be hit or miss without a dedicated lo-vhf antenna. A simple dipole *may* work.
Frankly, I'd go for ABC from baltimore, which is on uhf real channel 38.

Other, wiser forum members may chime in with different solutions.
tonyp063 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-Jul-2014, 9:41 PM   #10
tonyp063
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 47
These are also excellent designs, which may be more suited to the material list you mentioned that you have

http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/mult...sreflectorrods
tonyp063 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Go Back   TV Fool > Over The Air Services > Special Topics > Antennas


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT. The time now is 2:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © TV Fool, LLC