Help with reception in NE North Dakota

[crinde]

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...1ddafce574be95

To save money my dad has canceled cable and I am trying to help him get more then the 2 channels (WDAZ, KNRR) he can now get with rabbit ears. There is an old VHF only antenna that has not been hooked up for almost twenty years on a tower on the roof of his two story home, and used to get in the analog days WDAZ, KNRR, KVLY, KXJB, KGFE. Now only WDAZ and KNRR are VHF and the others moved UHF when they went digital. Looking at this situation do you think hooking up again the old VHF antenna and adding a large UHF antenna below it like the Antennas Direct DB8e or Antennas Direct 91XG or Winegard HD9095P would give him a chance at regaining those now UHF stations, or is it a lost cause? Anything else we can try?

Is the 23 degree separation of the UHF stations enough that the slightly more aiming friendly panel antenna DB8e is worth the extra cost over a directional antenna like the 91XG or HD 9095P?

If I do go with the DB8e am I better off keeping the two sections parallel and aiming between the two stations or toeing them out ten degrees with a panel aimed at each transmitter?

What is a good amplifier for this application combining the VHF and UHF antennas, boosting the weak signals and not overloading the two powerful VHF signals?

How critical is the spacing between the two antennas, my pole is long enough that I should be able to get three feet between the old VHF and a directional UHF, but a tall panel like the DB8e will be getting rather close to the old VHF antenna.

Thanks for your help!

The tvfool report says resolved to city level only.

However , Hoople , ND. is only a few blocks north and south and east and west and looks real flat and the surrounding area looks real flat and your fathers reception tower is listed as 75 feet above ground , so at this point I do not see that a more accurate report would be a big help one way or the other.

If he lives in Hoople or is close to Hoople and the tower is not down in a low place or behind a hill , then I am making a recommendation for reception.

For reception of.

WDAZ channel 8 ABC and CW ,

KNRR channel 12 FOX ,

KCGE channel 16 PBS ,

KBRR channel 10 FOX ,

KVLY channel 44 NBC and Me-Tv ,

KGFE channel 15 PBS ,

KXJB channel 38 CBS.

Install a Winegard HD7698P antenna aimed at about 145 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

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Also install a Antennas Direct CPA-19 preamp.

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For one Tv connected use No splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a , HFS-2D , 2 way splitter.

Here are places to buy the antenna , HFS splitter and etc..

http://www.solidsignal.com.

http://www.amazon.com.

http://www.hollandelectronics.com.

http://www.winegarddirect.com.

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For coax that is exposed to the Weather/Water , use the coax that has the Compression type coax fittings on the ends of the coax , not the Old crimp type coax connectors.

To mke double sure that water does not get into outside connections and coax , wrap all , connectors , couplers , coax , and etc. with coaxseal , http://www.coaxseal.com.

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WDAZ and KNRR are both Very Strong Signal Strength at your location and Will Be received at the front angle and back angle of the HD7698P antenna with no antenna rotator.

The concentration/effort of reception is on the Digital Tv stations to the south east.

KXJB CBS is the weakest station so the aim of the HD7698P antenna is favored to that direction.

KCGE PBS is stronger then KGFE PBS so that means the HD7698P antenna can be favored to ward KXJB.

There are 2 FOX stations so the Strong fox KNRR will be received through the back angle of the HD7698P antenna so no requirement to receive KBRR FOX.

So the HD7698P antenna can be favored in the direction of KXJB.

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I say that a antenna rotator will not be required to receive the USA Digital Tv stations.

However , getting the correct antenna aim would be easier with a antenna rotator , as opposed to climbing up and down a 75 foot tower , unless you have one of those tilt over towers that will allow antenna installation and aiming standing on the ground.

Or you want to spend less money and climb up and down the tower if required to get the best aim direction.


If a antenna rotator is installed , then I recommend a Ham radio Heavier Duty type rotator , (then a standard antenna rotator) , be used do the size of the HD7698P antenna and the high winds out in north east ND.

The Heavier duty Ham radio rotator model number has slipped out of my mind and the paper with the model number is hiding from me so I will look it up and return.

[GroundUrMast]

Perhaps you're thinking of the Hy-Gain AR-40?

http://www.hy-gain.com/Product.php?productid=AR-40

[ADTech]

There's no need for a large 7-51 combo such as the 7698. The only VHF station to the southeast, KBRR, is duplicated (except for local commercials) by KNRR making the very large VHF section of the 7698 unneeded.

What you do need is a deep-fringe UHF antenna that will "cover" the 40° spread of the Grand Forks and Fargo UHF stations and, if necessary, a simple VHF dipole for your two local VHF stations.

Based on this, the DB8e wouldn't be suggested. What I would suggest is two DB4e antennas placed vertically on the same mast with their reflectors just about touching, creating an 8-bay vertical stack. Flip the bottom antenna upside down, then combine the two antennas with a reversed splitter and two short coax cables. No rotor should be needed.

In the event the two VHF stations don't come in off the DB4e stack, (they probably will come in adequately), a simple VHF dipole can be added as needed. Details can be provided.

Your UHF signals need a pre-amplifier, the VHF signals don't although they can be readily amplified without causing trouble. Our PA18 amp is perfectly fine for this application. You really don't need the CPA19 although you can use it.

I'd recycle the old VHF antenna so it can be used for something else useful, like new beer cans.

The VHF high band of VHF channels are , channels 7 thru 13.

There Are , 3 VHF high band stations/channels.

WDAZ-TV VHF Digital channel -->8 ABC , at 208 degree magnetic compass direction.

KNRR VHF Digital channel -->12 , FOX at 14 degree magnetic compass direction.

KBRR VHF Digital channel -->10 , FOX at 125 degree magnetic compass direction.

So Yes a UHF/VHF antenna receives both the.

UHF channels of 14 thru 51.

VHF channels of 7 thru 13.

[crinde]

What is the advantage of vertically stacking two DB4e over the DB8e which is basically horizontally stacking two DB4e? How long of a pole do I need to stack two DB4e vertically, because I may need to buy a longer pole for the top of the tower.

If I stack the two DB4e over the old VHF antenna which I am considering aiming North towards CKY-DT in Ste. Agathe/Ritchot, MB (not listed in TVFool) will it interfere with UHF antenna, because I am definitely more interested in the US stations and don't want to hurt my chances with them.

The tvfool Pending Applications Included Digital channels list shows the Canada
CKY-DT Digital channel 7 , CTV.

For reception of the USA Digital Tv stations and Canada Digital Tv station.

Install 2 Tv antennas connected to one coax down lead.

For reception of the USA , UHF Digital Tv stations install a Channel Master CM4228HD aimed at about 145 degree magnetic compass direction.

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Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

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For reception of Canada , CKY-DT Digital channel 7 , and the USA digital channels , 12 and 8 , install a Winegard YA1713 VHF high band antenna aimed at about 13 degree magnetic compass direction.

The Very Strong Signal Strength VHF channel 8 Will Be Received through the back of the YA1713 antenna.

Connect the CM4228HD and the YA1713 antennas together with a Antennas Direct , EU385CF-1s , UHF VHF antenna combiner.

Connect the CM4228HD to the UHF connection of the combiner.

Connect the YA1713 to the VHF connection of the combiner.

The remaing connection of the combiner is connected to a Antennas Direct CPA-19 preamp.

For 1 Tv connected use No splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a , HFS-2D , 2 way splitter.

For 3 TV's connected use a , HFS-2D , 3 way splitter.

Here are some places to buy the HFS splitters and antennas , http://www.solidsignal.com , or , http://www.hollandelectronics.com , http://www.winegarddirect.com , http://www.channelmasterstore.com.

[ADTech]

Originally Posted by crinde

What is the advantage of vertically stacking two DB4e over the DB8e which is basically horizontally stacking two DB4e? How long of a pole do I need to stack two DB4e vertically, because I may need to buy a longer pole for the top of the tower.

If I stack the two DB4e over the old VHF antenna which I am considering aiming North towards CKY-DT in Ste. Agathe/Ritchot, MB (not listed in TVFool) will it interfere with UHF antenna, because I am definitely more interested in the US stations and don't want to hurt my chances with them.

The advantage in the vertical stack is that you maintain the higher beam width of the 4-bay while flattening the aperture in the vertical axis to increase gain. The horizontal stack of any 8-bay antenna squeezes the pattern horizontally and makes it more directional from left-to-right. Using an 8-bay in this situation will probably mean more of a compromise because, if aiming between the two incoming signal sources, they would then BOTH be outside the most useful reception aperture. You have a 40° spread in your UHF signals while the -3 dB beam width of most 8-bay antennas is going to be between 15 and 30°, depending on the specific channel (and the specific antenna).

You'd likely need 8-10' of usable mast. The two DB4e antennas will take up about 5' at the top. Allow a couple of feet separation between the bottom antenna and your large VHF antenna. Combine the two antennas with a UVSJ and feed that into the pre-amplifier.

[crinde]

To combine two DB4e I need two equal lengths of RG6 correct, and is there a recommended splitter that I should be using in this application?

So something like this

http://www.amazon.com/CHANNEL-2532-2...&keywords=UVSJ

or this?

http://www.amazon.com/Pico-Macom-UHF...&keywords=UVSJ



The differences between the PA18 and CPA19 is that the CPA19 has a little more boast and a little less noise at the cost of being about $40 more expensive correct?