need help with channel 10

Javaman · 27-Mar-2011, 12:52 AM

After reading the forums for the past 3 weeks and trying a number of home built antennas I've finally decided to ask the experts. This has really been a DIY mission for me. The appeal was always the DIY aspect but maybe its too much to hope for.

Here's my report.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...8d172c1e584f63

It is a hilly area with many tall trees. I can receive all the channels on the list above Channel 10 (WTNH) with a home made Gray Hoverman antenna I have on the second floor. There's about 40 ft of RG6 cable connected to the TV. The TV displays an SNR of around 20 for Channel 33, the lowest on the list that I'm receiving.

I've been on the roof holding up a folded dipole cut for 195 mhz and the Hoverman, aiming south in the direction of Channel 10 yet nothing shows up. The snow pattern looks a little busier but that's all. From those TVFool numbers shouldn't I be pretty close to snagging this channel? Just wondering what the minimum I might need and if it there's potential here. Thanks for the feedback.

GroundUrMast · 27-Mar-2011, 3:48 AM

Most of the DIY antenna designs on the internet are only capable of UHF reception.

If you are committed to DIY antenna building, take a look at a high-VHF Yagi design. Reception of real channel 10 and 11 will be far more likely if you point a H-VHF capable antenna at the station. As mentioned in the linked thread, the design is similar to a Y5713 or YA6713 (Antennacraft & Winegard models).

I would recommend a store bought UVSJ to combine the UHF and VHF antennas into one down-lead.

Quote:

The snow pattern looks a little busier but that's all.

That begs the question, are you using an analog tuner to search for digital signals?

John Candle · 27-Mar-2011, 5:24 AM

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Dave Loudin · 27-Mar-2011, 11:23 AM

GUM, don't knock the GH for high VHF. Done properly, designs are showing at least 7 dBi gain in that band.

Javaman · 27-Mar-2011, 1:34 PM

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GroundUrMast

That begs the question, are you using an analog tuner to search for digital signals?

Nah its just the way my Samsung shows the picture before it locks on to a signal. Its nothing like seeing faint images in analog, more darkish diagonal bands.

The design I used for the GH is the one tailored for VHF-Hi, with the so-called "narods" and reflectors. No doubt I could improve on my assembly for better efficiency.

I think I'll give the Yagi a go. I've caught the DIY antenna bug. The Yagi was one of the designs I've been mulling over. A 10 dBd gain should do it for channel 10 shouldn't it?

GroundUrMast · 27-Mar-2011, 5:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Loudin

GUM, don't knock the GH for high VHF. Done properly, designs are showing at least 7 dBi gain in that band.

Duly noted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javaman

... A 10 dBd gain should do it for channel 10 shouldn't it?

I have built several antennas myself... so I certainly won't discourage others from the hobby. There is the theory, and then the practice. With out expensive test gear I can only use crude build, try, compare methods to determine real performance.

10 dBd should give you access to CH-10 and 11. On paper, it says 9.8 dBd... YMMV

Wishing you success!

Dave Loudin · 27-Mar-2011, 6:33 PM

This site has optimized configurations of G-H antennas. Some designs reach 14 dBi for UHF and 9dBi for high-VHF.

Tower Guy · 28-Mar-2011, 1:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javaman

I think I'll give the Yagi a go. I've caught the DIY antenna bug. The Yagi was one of the designs I've been mulling over. A 10 dBd gain should do it for channel 10 shouldn't it?

I think that's smart.

Your problem is more likley to be multipath off the surrounding hills and not just signal strength. A tight antenna pattern and good front to back is your best hope.

ADTech · 28-Mar-2011, 3:40 PM

You might want to try an FM Filter before changing anything. Radio Shack recently added one (back) to their lineup under catalog # 15-0024 (1500024) that has been tested to be decent and it's easy to return if it doesn't help.

You have several FM signals (potential interferers) that have signals forecast to be between 20 and 30 dB stronger than WTNH's signal.

John Candle · 28-Mar-2011, 7:20 PM

The HD7698P has high forward gain of 11 and 12 Db at channels 11 and 10. A tight antenna pattern of forward reception , rejecting signals at the back and sides of the antenna.

John Candle · 28-Mar-2011, 8:07 PM

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Javaman · 29-Mar-2011, 4:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADTech

You might want to try an FM Filter before changing anything. Radio Shack recently added one (back) to their lineup under catalog # 15-0024 (1500024) that has been tested to be decent and it's easy to return if it doesn't help.

You have several FM signals (potential interferers) that have signals forecast to be between 20 and 30 dB stronger than WTNH's signal.

Thanks. I'll give that a try. I have found it a little frustrating that I haven't seen a blip of signal, yet many years ago we had a rooftop antenna that pulled in a slightly snowy channel 8, back before it became digital channel 10.

Javaman · 14-Apr-2011, 8:03 PM

Well I finally pulled in channel 10 WTNH. It's not ideal but I was just trying to see if I could get anything at all to reward this past month. I ran a cable out the window and walked around the yard with my roughly built 6 director Yagi and stumbled across a narrow spot that's letting signal through. Its weaker than others but it was stable.

On the roof its a different story. I think the fuller top parts of the evergreens to the south are blocking signal. I used a shorter cable length to rule out line loss on the roof but nothing. I tried the FM trap but had no luck with that either so I returned it.

I still wish I could grab something on the roof but I'm thrilled that 39 miles out this signal came through. It might get blocked when the leaves grow in. I'll have to check.

I was able to nab WUVN with a custom tailored Yagi and noticed its signal is much stronger than WTNH even though its ranked way below it on the TVFool report. Next chance I get I'll do some more exploring to see if other spots are better at reception.

John Candle · 14-Apr-2011, 11:32 PM

You are doing great. Walking around looking for hot spots is the way to do it. Receiving under the trees leaves often works. It can also help to tip and tilt the antenna. Usually raising the front of the antenna up so the antenna 'looks' at the horizon helps. And believe it or not sometimes having the antenna very close to the ground , about 1 foot above the ground will provide a stable useable signal. It's known as ground wave reception. Also some reception locations have trees close to the house but beyond that it is some distance before there are big trees that can reduce or block reception. And at those locations the antenna is placed beyond the trees that are close to the house.