Best Options and Installation.

Justintoxicated · 14-Dec-2010, 9:44 PM

Tv Fool Report

Solid Signal Recommended me this antenna with a rotator.
VHF / UHF Yagi

I was hoping to avoid needing a rotator due to broadcast locations. Of the VHF Stations the only ones I care about are 8 & 10.

So I was thinking about getting this:
8 Foot Yagi Antenna for VHF Stations
(They are listed as 2 edge in tv fool which means there is hills blocking reception) Tis antenna would be pointed at at VHF stations which are SW.

UHF Bowtie Antenna
This has a wide enough range that it should be able to pickup all the UHF stations. Many of the UHF Stations are listed as LOS (Line of Sight).

This way I should be able to get a slightly better antenna for VHF, while not needing a rotator for UHF. What do you think?

So then I just need to figure out how to install all this stuff.
This is the best tripod mount I could find on their site. Not sure if it includes Pitch Pads or not, (Whatever those are). It fits up to 1/75" Mast and top rail is 1.375"
5' Tripod Mount

The tripod needs to be attached to the Rafters, but I'm not sure this will be possible (certainly one could be, and possibly 2 but likely not all 3). It is suggested to brace with wooden blocks if the rafters are not available. This will not be possible either since there is not enough room to crawl around in the attic and it is sprayed with fiberglass. Unless there is a way to mount it directly over the access area.

Would this mast be much better than using 2 10'6" toprails stacked? Telescoping Mast Looks like it might make the install allot easier?

Should I buy a VHF or UHF pre-amp? How the heck do you align the antennas before putting up the mast? I would not be able to mess with alignment once it is up without a rotator? The whole install has me worried. I'd just hate to get it up and then have to take it down to put on a pre-amp or reposition the VHF antenna. Almost has me thinking it might be better to buy the combo Yagi and Rotator equipment instead?

Finally, I have an Antenna on top of the roof now but it is not aimed properly. It's aimed about 60 degrees off of where the majority of the stations are. (its about 235 deg SE). While it might be good enough(?), I figure it may not be worth it to find out (labor involved in taking down the mast, guy wires etc) to repair the connections and elements, reposition it and get it back up.

Here are the stations I verified we are already getting with the old antenna (even mispositioned). 3 or 4 of them will cut out depending on the weather.

RF 19 KSWB
Fox 5 69-1
thisTv 69-2
RF 18 KUSI-HD
51-1
RF 40 KNSD HD
Universal sports 39-3
NBC+ 39-2
NBC 39-1
RF 30 KPBS
15-1
V-ME 15-2

RF 12 XEST
12-1(breaks up sometimes)
RF 8 KFMB-TV
CBS 8-1
RF 6 XETV
CW - yes there is static

Existing Mount

2010-12-05_15-17-02_50 by Glamisduner, on Flickr

Existing Antenna (Needs to be pointed towards the hill (SW).

2010-12-05_15-12-27_344 by Glamisduner, on Flickr

John Candle · 15-Dec-2010, 1:20 AM

Looking at the Pending Applications Included , I recommend Winegard HD7084P antenna. I do not think you will need a rotor as there is only a 26 degree spread of the angle of Tv stations to the south. You do have XETV Tv 6 to the south. Might as well cover all the channels , 2 thru 6 , 7 thru 13 and 14 thru 69. This all channel antenna will cost the same or less then a antenna that receives 7 thru 13 and 14 thru 69.

John Candle · 15-Dec-2010, 2:00 AM

If the attic has an access opening in the ceiling in the house or car port or garage , and if the antenna would be in a good place for reception over that opening the you could put a antenna mount there. Some common antenna mounts are tripod mounts , chimney mounts , eave mounths , push up pole mounts with guy wires , or you can make a new block mount with a pole and guy wires like shown in the picture. http://www.solidsignal.com

Justintoxicated · 15-Dec-2010, 2:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Candle

Looking at the Pending Applications Included , I recommend Winegard HD7084P antenna. I do not think you will need a rotor as there is only a 26 degree spread of the angle of Tv stations to the south. You do have XETV Tv 6 to the south. Might as well cover all the channels , 2 thru 6 , 7 thru 13 and 14 thru 69. This all channel antenna will cost the same or less then a antenna that receives 7 thru 13 and 14 thru 69.

Channel 6 (Analog) is rebroadcast in DT on channel 23.

There is actually a 50 degree spread for all needed channels (VHF and UHF). However both needed VHF stations are broadcasting from 201 degrees, and they are both rated "2 edge" (my house is built into the side of the hill which the antenna on the 20 foot mast will have to reach out over the edge of to pick these up). It may need to be more directly pointed at these stations than TV fool shows?

All the UHF Stations make up a 28 degree spread.

Would the HD7084P still be best? It appears it is designed to pickup a lot of channels that are not broadcast in my area, and might be too directional to pickup the VHF stations when not pointed towards them? I'm new too all this so if I'm mistaken please explain.

I'm leaning towards the Tripod mount, I would imagine it would be more sturdy than the block mount. Although it appears that the block mount has been working fine for quite some time now.

John Candle · 15-Dec-2010, 2:32 AM

Looks like you are correct about UHF 23 to the south , so go with the HD7698P. But then FCC Tv channel assignments are still in progress and a VHF low band channel 2 thru 6 might appear in your area. Here is more information on towers http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=1045 . And here is more information http://www.3starinc.com/rohn_telescopic_masts.html , http://www.3starinc.com/rohn_tripod_mounts.html

Justintoxicated · 15-Dec-2010, 2:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Candle

Looks like you are correct about UHF 23 to the south , so go with the HD7698P. But then FCC Tv channel assignments are still in progress and a VHF low band channel 2 thru 6 might appear in your area. Here is more information on towers http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=1045

Thanks for the link that square tubing looks cool.

If I got the HD7698P, what direction would you recommend pointing it? Directly at the VHF stations at 201 degrees, and hope that I can still get all of the UHF stations? Or did you mean with the rotator?

So, in your opinion, it would not be a good idea to get the A-1713 and a UHF Specific antenna?

John Candle · 15-Dec-2010, 3:45 AM

Due to the scattering of VHF and UHF channels to the south west , south and south east I see no advantage for separate antennas.

Justintoxicated · 15-Dec-2010, 5:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Candle

Due to the scattering of VHF and UHF channels to the south west , south and south east I see no advantage for separate antennas.

The VHF stations are both located at 201 degrees (All others are spanish or rebroadcast on other channels).

The UHF stations are spread out from 153-176 degrees (23 degree spread).

I think I'm failing to understand what you mean by the stations being scattered?

Can you please explain to me why I would be better off with a single beam style antenna vs the two separates I listed? I don't just want to buy something, but I want to understand why it is better. I know antennas can inter-fear with each other if that is the reason? Are you thinking I should get the single antenna with a rotator so I could rotate between VHF and UHF?

I was almost thinking I should buy the VHF (YA 1713 ) and another beam style antenna for UHF because the stations are so clustered and not spread out with each other? I just figured that if the Bowtie style would work, it would be easier to position. But if I should go with a single then that would be an even easier install. I just hope it picks up UHF stations located at 153 if I have to point it at 201-230 degrees (The previous owner has it pointed to 230 for some reason). It will likely need to be pointed directly at 201 degrees (or more) to GET CBS and ABC (VHF) because they are both listed as 2 edge signals).

Here is my house, if I have to point the UHF antenna at the hill, is it simply not tall enough to be blocking such that the stations are still considered LOS as listed by TV fool?

Tigerbangs · 15-Dec-2010, 5:25 AM

Actually, Intoxicated, you are really on the right track: San Diego has been a 2-antenna market for quite some time, as the major VHF and UHF transmitters lie in different directions, about 45 degrees apart at your location. When using a deep-fringe antenna like an HD-7698P, the beamwidth of that antenna is narrow enough that you will compromise your reception on both VHF and UHF by choosing one antenna to do everything.

The Winegard YA-1713 or the very similar AntennaCraft Y-10-7-13 should be aimed at 190 degrees by your compass, and your UHF antenna should be aimed at 165 degrees. Your UHF stations are all line-of-sight at about 35 miles, and the beamwidth of a 4-bay antenna will allow you to see all the desired UHF stations. I believe that a small 4-bay UHF antenna like a Channel Master 4221 HD, a Winegard HD-4400, or an AntennasDirect DB4 should do the trick for you.

Combine the signals from the 2 antennas using a Pico-Macom UVSJ, and run the cable to the TV set or splitter/amplifier if you have multiple TV sets. You will not need a rotator with this setup, and channels 8 and 10 will come in just fine, as will your various UHF stations. Here's a good installation guide to help you out:

http://manuals.solidsignal.com/AntInstallGuide.pdf

John Candle · 15-Dec-2010, 5:50 AM

Scattered / distributed . The Receivable VHF channels are at 137 , 153 , 164 , 189 magnetic compass. The Receivable UHF channels are at 137 , 153 , 164 , 189. Any way , do what ever you like.

Justintoxicated · 15-Dec-2010, 6:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigerbangs

Actually, Intoxicated, you are really on the right track: San Diego has been a 2-antenna market for quite some time, as the major VHF and UHF transmitters lie in different directions, about 45 degrees apart at your location. When using a deep-fringe antenna like an HD-7698P, the beamwidth of that antenna is narrow enough that you will compromise your reception on both VHF and UHF by choosing one antenna to do everything.

The Winegard YA-1713 or the very similar AntennaCraft Y-10-7-13 should be aimed at 190 degrees by your compass, and your UHF antenna should be aimed at 165 degrees. Your UHF stations are all line-of-sight at about 35 miles, and the beamwidth of a 4-bay antenna will allow you to see all the desired UHF stations. I believe that a small 4-bay UHF antenna like a Channel Master 4221 HD, a Winegard HD-4400, or an AntennasDirect DB4 should do the trick for you.

Combine the signals from the 2 antennas using a Pico-Macom UVSJ, and run the cable to the TV set or splitter/amplifier if you have multiple TV sets. You will not need a rotator with this setup, and channels 8 and 10 will come in just fine, as will your various UHF stations. Here's a good installation guide to help you out:

http://manuals.solidsignal.com/AntInstallGuide.pdf

Which one is a better antenna, the Y-10-17-23 is a little bigger, but I'm not sure it has the same quality? I know it need the Balun where the other one comes with it and has some kind of weather resistant coating on it.

Also i was going to use my android phone to do the alignment, it seems crazy accurate and it's digital, the program looks something like this
http://www.androlib.com/android.scre...zF-jqFm.u.aspx
This is giving non-magnetic coordinates right?

What do you think about using the telescoping antenna vs chain-link top rail? Would it make the install go easier? I always fear mounting anything to my roof because I'm still getting the hang of home ownership. If I do have to tweak positioning due to the hill, I'd like repetition of putting up mast be be as easy and secure as possible. Or if it's not that big of a difference, I would rather save money.

John: I was digging the Square Post deal with the holes in it, until I remembered that the tripod mount I intend to use probably will not work with it?

Dave Loudin · 15-Dec-2010, 11:54 AM

To see just what is blocking the VHFs, click on one of them in the table of your TVFool report. The path profile between transmitter and you will pop up in another window/tab.

Tower Guy · 15-Dec-2010, 3:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Candle

I recommend Winegard HD7084P antenna.

I like the original suggestion of a hi band VHF and a UHF only. Reception of channel 6 analog is unnecessary.

Justintoxicated · 15-Dec-2010, 9:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Loudin

To see just what is blocking the VHFs, click on one of them in the table of your TVFool report. The path profile between transmitter and you will pop up in another window/tab.

Not sure how to read the result though? Where is my location in the picture that appears?
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...ALLTV%26n%3d15

Also, any suggestions on purchasing a telescoping Mast vs using Top Rail? Which will be more sturdy and which will be easier to put up?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tower Guy

I like the original suggestion of a hi band VHF and a UHF only. Reception of channel 6 analog is unnecessary.

Should I go with the bowtie or something more directional for the UHF like this? Or is this too directional?
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...u=853748001910

Tower Guy · 15-Dec-2010, 9:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justintoxicated

Should I go with the bowtie or something more directional?

The bow tie array will work fine dealing with the 11° difference between the US and Mexican stations. The 91 XG will have more trouble with that difference.

Justintoxicated · 15-Dec-2010, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tower Guy

The bow tie array will work fine dealing with the 11° difference between the US and Mexican stations. The 91 XG will have more trouble with that difference.

I'd assume this is true for other Beam antennas as well such as this yagi?
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...0Antennas&sku=

Tigerbangs · 16-Dec-2010, 1:51 AM

I agree with Tower Guy: Go with a bowtie type antenna aimed in the middle of the spread of the SD and Mexican stations: that would be roughly 140-145 degrees by your compass; you'll do just fine!

Justintoxicated · 16-Dec-2010, 2:13 AM

Thanks for everyones help, I order the YA-1713, and the U4000, a 5' HD Tripod Mount, UVSJ Combiner, Grounding Block for Coax Cable. (Does the mast need to be grounded too?).

I think these Both come with Baluns but I'm not sure.

I'm hoping I can pickup the mast (Top Rail), grounding wire, and guy wires, turnbuckles, and eye bolts at a Home Depot or something. (Need RG6 connectors too)

I only have Direct Burial RG59, but I did purchase a nice crimping tool. Maybe some RG6 Cable from monoprice and a premium splitter is in order?