Advice on antenna for Boston area

[BostonButterfly]

New here, and hoping to get some advice. I’ve begun researching to take a step towards cutting the cable cord. I would like to install an antenna on my roof. My plan is to dedicate one TV right now to OTA channels to see if we like it, and if we do, will cut the cord on the other two TVs in the house.
Attached is my tvfool report.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b94aa67b7c71e

Some details/questions:
1. I live about 10 miles south of Boston.
2. My goal is to get as many channels as possible because I need to convince the rest of the family that cutting the cord is worth it.
3.I’m hoping that I don’t need a monster of an antenna. Too big, and the family will ax my attempt at cutting the cord.
4.General question: is reception effected by weather, or is it more of either you get a channel or you don’t? I’m basically wondering if you have to deal with inconsistent reception when using an antenna.

Any advice and antenna suggestions are greatly appreciated!
Thanks in advance.
Kim

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A Simple reception situation.

Install a , http://www.antennacraft.net.

HBU11K antenna aimed at about 347 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Use a Real and Actual magnetic compass to aim antenna , do not trust a cell phone compass.

The HBU11K antenna will be installed Above the Peak of the Roof in such a manner that reception is not , obstructed , impeded , blocked , by the roof and building in the directions of reception.

The directions of reception are , North , North West , South West , South.

Avoid trees and other obstructions in the directions of reception.

The closer obstructions are in the directions of reception , the more disruped the reception will be.

The further obstructions are away in the directions of reception the better reception will be.

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The Reception signal strengths are Very Strong at your reception location.

-->MANY<--Digital Broadcast Tv Stations/Channels will be received.

A antenna system amplifier will not be required.

The coax from the antenna will not be connected to any other coaxes that have any Cable Tv services or internet services or phone services.

Do not connect the coax from the antenna to satellite system coax.


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The December 2013 issue of Consumer Reports , page 42 , has a Practical and Useful and Informative Article of Internet Streaming Boxes and Internet Streaming Services such as and not limited to , HULU+ and NetFlix.

[Tower Guy]

Originally Posted by BostonButterfly

2. My goal is to get as many channels as possible because I need to convince the rest of the family that cutting the cord is worth it.

Kim

A UHF only aimed at Boston and a VHF only aimed at Providence will get you a nice package.

UHF only: DB-2
VHF only: Y5-7-13
UHF/VHF coupler: UVSJ

You won't need a preamp.

The antennas will work well with no dropouts if mounted on the roof, but may work in the attic if everything else is favorable.

[BostonButterfly]

Thanks Tower Guy. I appreciate your help.
Are there no combined UHF/VHF antennas that would work in my situation? I'm assuming its because the towers are in opposite directions(?) - but I know nothing about this stuff!

[BostonButterfly]

Should I care that DB-2 has been discontinued?

[GroundUrMast]

Use the DB2E. It's got a bit more performance than the old DB2 design.

(If you can find a DB2 at a great price, that's fine too.)

[BostonButterfly]

Thanks everyone!
Is there much difference between HBU11K and the DB2E? Or do they both basically perform the same - just different makers?

Also, given the signal strengths apparently are very strong in my area, could I possibly expect not much reception difference if I mounted this in my attic as opposed to outside on my roof?

[ADTech]

Originally Posted by BostonButterfly

Should I care that DB-2 has been discontinued?

Nope. We still have a good number left in inventory.

Is there much difference between HBU11K and the DB2E?

Yes, a substantial difference. The HBU11 is a modestly directional UHF/VHF antenna. The DB2/e antenna is a UHF-only design that has better UHF performance than does the HBU11

[Tower Guy]

There is no formula that predicts attic performance. It depends in the style of roof, type of insulation, composition of shingles, angle to towers, snow buildup, etc.

The HBU series is combo UHF/VHF which forces the wrong aim for the Providence stations.

[tomfoolery]

Originally Posted by BostonButterfly

Thanks Tower Guy. I appreciate your help.
Are there no combined UHF/VHF antennas that would work in my situation? I'm assuming its because the towers are in opposite directions(?) - but I know nothing about this stuff!

Your two main markets are about 95 degrees apart, which is about the absolute worst place to have them for a single directional antenna, as there is likely a big null at 90 degrees. Unless you aim right between them, and the signals are strong enough to drive it reliably anyway, but then the VHF section is also 45 degrees off target, and those signals aren't as strong. The two antenna solution looks ideal to me if you want those three H-VHF stations, but it looks like the major networks, plus CW, Fox, and PBS, are all in the Boston area, and you could get them all with just the DB2e. You could always add the Y5-7-13 later, aimed at Providence, if you leave room on the mast.

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The Current Tv channels that are being Transmitted and Received in the , USA , Canada , Mexico , are.

VHF low band channels 2 thru 6.

VHF high band channels 7 thru 13.

UHF band channels 14 thru 51.

Your reception location has channels in the , VHF high band and UHF band , in the Green and Yellow reception zones of the Tvfool Digital Current Plus Pending Applications Included Channel List and Radar Plot Map.

The Tvfool channel list and and radar plot map shows the , Real Channels that are transmitted and received and also shows the , (virt) virtual numbers.

----> (virt) Virtual Numbers Are Not Real Channels even if the virtual number is the same as the Real Channel.

Tv antennas only receive Real Channels.

The HBU11k antenna is desinged to receive the , UHF and VHF high band channels.

Directional antennas such as the HBU11K antenna receive the best in the forward direction , a little less at front angles to the antenna , less at back angles to the antenna , less at the back of the antenna , and receive the least signal on sides of the antenna.

If you look at the Tvfool radar plot and place a picture of the HBU11K antenna on the radar plot and aim the HBU11K antenna at about 347 degree magnetic compass direction you will see that the Tv stations in the Green and Yellow reception zones are at , front , front and back angles and back of the antenna with no Tv stations on the sides of the antenna.

The Tv stations in the Green and Yellow reception zones will be received.

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Here is a Clear and Simple Truth.

Attics and the inside of buildings Are Not a reception friendly environment and Never Will Be a reception friendly environment.

Yes you can start with the HBU11K antenna in the attic.

If reception situations happen in the attic that are not resolvable with antenna aim adjustments and antenna location adjustments in the attic , then move the HBU11K antenna to Above the Roof.

[StephanieS]

Gosh,

+1 for Towerguy's idea of a two antenna solution.

In this situation I'd almost go with a DB8e with a panel pointed at magnetic 325 and a panel at magnetic 228. Second antenna would be a Y5713 pointed at magnetic 218 for reception of Providence high-VHF.

Connect them through a combiner and run a single lead down.

Boston Butterfly - Fantastic report! The above system could yield you dozens of program streams with the subchannels factored in!

Originally Posted by BostonButterfly

Are there no combined UHF/VHF antennas that would work in my situation? I'm assuming its because the towers are in opposite directions(?) - but I know nothing about this stuff!

Antennas work best when they can be pointed at the transmitting source. When you try to "split the difference" across a 100 degree arc, it's like trying to use headlights to see off the side of your car. Your lights are pointed one way, but you need to see in another direction. Same with antennas.

This is why the 2 antenna suggestion is being offered. You want to use your headlights to see in front of you. For maximum chance at reliable reception of Boston and more importantly, Providence pointing at magnetic 218 with UHF and VHF antennas focusing on those signals should get you to WSBE Rhode Island PBS.

This in effect, maximizes your chances for success for both Boston and the signals to the south.

SS

[GroundUrMast]

I'd use the two antenna solution.

[BostonButterfly]

Thanks so much for all the information everyone. What a valuable resource this forum is!

[BostonButterfly]

StephanieS: I understand what you are saying. By looking at the specs of the DB8E against my Tvfool report, it looks like the 8E would be overkill. No? If I look at the UHF stations in the providence direction, either green/yellow/red on the report, it looks like there is only one station over 30 miles away. I'm wondering if two separate DB2e's would work just as well (pointed in the directions you mentioned)?

In thinking this all through, I've been ignoring any stations in the grey section of the report. If you're saying that the DB8E will pick up those stations as well, then I understand your recommendation of the 8E. Although, almost all of those stations are beyond the 70 miles range that the 8E specs show.

thanks!

[ADTech]

beyond the 70 miles range that the 8E specs show.

Mileages are estimates only. They are given to allow novice customers some insight into the relative performance between models. Such numbers are not promises nor guarantees. Depending on local conditions, the DB8e might be able to readily receive signals from over 100 miles away or, in severe cases, might be unable to pick up signals a mere couple of miles away. Terrain, trees, and transmitter characteristics (operating power, operating channel, directional characteristics, transmitting antenna height, etc) are all important elements that will affect the signals before they ever get to the vicinity of the antenna.

Think of the old adage about what three things make real estate valuable: Location, location, and location. Antenna selection, installation, and system performance are going to be affected by that triple factor.

It is far more accurate to use the TVFool simulator to estimate incoming signal strength, then to select an antenna with the needed characteristics so that the job can get done as well as possible. Experienced users of this site have learned that skill and can get antenna recommendations into the ballpark (or better).

[tomfoolery]

Originally Posted by BostonButterfly

I'm wondering if two separate DB2e's would work just as well (pointed in the directions you mentioned)?

From what I've learned here, joining two antennas working in the same band (UHF in this case), and aiming them in different directions, will cause the signal being received at a particular frequency through one antenna to be reradiated back out through the other antenna to some degree, resulting in a lower overall effective gain.

The DB2e shows about a 10 dB gain by itself, but combining it through a reversed splitter with another one aimed at 90 degrees would yield something less than 10 dB. The DB8e shows ~10 dB of gain with the two panels at 90 degrees to each other and the signals broadsiding either panel.

So it would seem that to get the same 10 dB of gain, more or less (frequency dependent) as the single bow tie DB2e, but with two primary targets at 90 degrees, you'd need to increase the gain in both directions in order to have enough left over when some is spilled out of the other.

Of course, I'm just thinking out loud, and someone should correct the above as required as I don't want to be spreading bad info, but here's the data sheets for those two antennas. I wish all the manufacturers would publish such sheets.

http://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_f...s/DB2E-TDS.pdf go to page 2, 0 degree azimuth

https://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_...s/DB8E-TDS.pdf go to page 5, 45 and 135 degree azimuth

[StephanieS]

Hi Boston,

Yes, with the panels both pointing at your Boston transmitters a DB8e would be absolute overkill.

However, the neat thing about the DB8e is that you can orientate each panel to in effect become two different antennas that are co-phased. This turns it into the DB8e into almost two clearstream 2Vs (minus the VHF element) facing two directions but acting as and working as one antenna. This situation is ideal for needs such as yours which has two signal paths off axis of one another. Many other people use the DB8e to focus on two different headings for their needs.

Also, the 70 mile reception number you hear is for both panels working the same direction in unison. In this proposed application, the 70 mile number and the gain cited for the panels orientated in the same direction don't apply. ADTech can give you more specifics about the gain and figures about the DB8e when it is working two different headings.

I wouldn't worry about the grey signals. Those are in the "extremely weak" category. It can take extreme luck, acts of God or a combo of the two to receive grey signals. People here have received signals in that color, I have not though. My weakest signal I receive reliably is a 7db (red shaded) signal that is 1-edge and 56 miles. It can have occasional drop outs if the atmosphere is feisty on any given day due to being right near the digital cliff (the point where you receive a signal or not).

Realistic expectations with the system I mentioned in my prior post is that you'll see all signals from magnetic 324 (Boston) except for W40BO, which is just a retransmission of ION from WPBX. For Providence, with one panel of the DB8e at magnetic 231 along with the Y5713 pointed to magnetic 216 expect to see: WJAR, WWDP, WNAC, WPRI, WLNE and WSBE. You might also see WLWC, however that one isn't certain.

Don't worry about red shaded signals. WPQX has the possibility of being doable and might come in. Past that, focus on Boston and Providence. Once you get past WPQX in signal weakness you are getting into the real aggressive antenna systems and even if you did that, those signals are likely to drop in and out and fluctuate.

Good luck!
SS

Originally Posted by BostonButterfly

StephanieS: I understand what you are saying. By looking at the specs of the DB8E against my Tvfool report, it looks like the 8E would be overkill. No? If I look at the UHF stations in the providence direction, either green/yellow/red on the report, it looks like there is only one station over 30 miles away. I'm wondering if two separate DB2e's would work just as well (pointed in the directions you mentioned)?

In thinking this all through, I've been ignoring any stations in the grey section of the report. If you're saying that the DB8E will pick up those stations as well, then I understand your recommendation of the 8E. Although, almost all of those stations are beyond the 70 miles range that the 8E specs show.

thanks!