Time for professional help.

chrispy · 17-Jul-2014, 8:10 PM

My name is Chris and, after several years and failed attempts, am ready to ditch cable TV. Here is my tvfool report http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e1c6a7ef72d957 My house faces east and, without a few trees, have LOS to the ABC/PBS transmitter.

I have tried simple rabbit ears, amplified set top units, and a homemade Gray Hoverman and can get ABC, PBS, and Fox with any of them. My wife is onboard with ditching the cable if I can reliably get NBC which I've not been able to pull in. My own OCD demands I also get CBS (which was iffy with my previous attempts). I did put the Gray on the deck (about 12' off the ground) and it didn't make much difference.

I am overwhelmed with the options for roof mounted antennas and am hoping someone can help narrow them down. I am also unsure if I'd need any pre or post amplifiers. I have 3 TVs but the kids have become used to only having a Roku hooked up so I'm looking at 2 TVs on opposite ends of the house from each other. Cable run from the roof would be about 50' to splitter then another 40' to the furthest TV. The convenient location where the cable already comes in is also where the main power comes into the house.

To recap. I'm looking for suggestions on an antenna that will pull in NBC reliably based on the report posted above.

Thanks in advance,
Chris

Billiam · 18-Jul-2014, 12:48 AM

You could easily get all the stations in Green, Yellow and most in Red with a good outdoor antenna and rotor mounted on the roof. Which channels in Red are desired? NBC only or anything else? Do you want to watch any channels below Ch. 7?

chrispy · 18-Jul-2014, 3:00 AM

It looks like CBS and NBC are both in red. Real channel or virtual? If real, then everything appears to be 7 or above. NBC is 4.1 virtually and CBS is 7.1

Thanks

Billiam · 18-Jul-2014, 11:27 AM

You will need a roof top antenna to get both those signals since they are fairly weak. You will also need a Rotor for the antenna since all the channels you have on the report are coming in from numerous directions.

If you are interested in WO2AG Ch. 2 or WCYB Ch. 5 you will need an all channel antenna like the Antennacraft HD 1850. If you don't need channels below Ch. 7 then the Antennacraft HBU 55 is your best antenna for this situation. You probably will not need a pre amp to get these signals at least not for the UHF signals. You might need a pre amp for Ch. 7 but I would first try the installation without one. If that does not work then check in back here to find out which one we can recommend. Hopefully there is still a VHF only pre amp being manufactured or available. You don't want a UHF pre amp because you have some pretty strong signals in Green and that will create interference issues.

chrispy · 18-Jul-2014, 12:55 PM

Thank you. I'll check them out and report back.

StephanieS · 18-Jul-2014, 1:18 PM

Hello Chris,

I agree with Billiam on the HD1850, if I were to approach your reception plot, I'd want to utilize it as well.

My assumption is you want the big four (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC) along with CW and PBS? The good news is you have viable options. The bad news is as you and Billiam has noted NBC is going to be difficult.

A two antenna system would be my recommendation. You may need still rotor ,however my goal would to give it a shot with two stationary antennas before going the rotor route. That said, the first antenna would be an Antennas Direct DB8e. Orientate first panel to magnetic 195 for coverage from WHNS FOX and WYCW CW. Second panel orientate to magnetic 240 for WUNF PBS.

This where the HD1850 comes in with ABC, CBS and NBC. The HD1850 is one the most powerful all channel fringe antennas on the market. You'll be using this to receive NBC WCYB real channel 5 from the Tri-Cities. The reasoning here is WYFF on real channel 36 has a stronger signal, but being UHF you have terrain obstructions. Those obstructions combined with a 7.5db signal puts you near the digital cliff. This is where once signals hit that cliff, they don't produce a picture on your TV due to being too weak. Being on real channel 36 (UHF), the likelyhood of dropouts are pretty good. Plus, UHF doesn't handle terrain blockages as well as VHF. W11AU-D is a rebroadcast of WYFF. It would be an option as it has a stronger signal of 9.0 db, however WJHL CBS is operating on the same channel. This is what we call co-channel interference. W11AU-D would require you point the HD1850 and see if it decodes. Co-channel interference situations can be unpredictable. I wouldn't attempt W11AU-D because of interference issues.

This leaves WCYB. You may notice it is weaker than WYFF and W11AU-D. It is at 5.8db signal strength. However, WCYB has few factors going for it that WYFF and W11AU-D don't. First, there is no co-channel interference listed. WCYB operates in the less used low VHF band (channels 2-6). This is ideal for a weaker signal to not have to overcome other co-channel transmitters. WCYB is also on VHF which allows for more tolerance of terrain issues due to its longer wavelength. The low VHF band is also less crowded with signals next to it. There are some small translators, but nothing strong next to WCYB.

It's my thought that WCYB would be the NBC I'd go after.

Now, the HD1850 I would orientate to magnetic 27 pointing directly at WCYB. I would anticpate the HD1850 would receive WLOS ABC and W08BP-D (WSPA) CBS off the side.

You'll need to combine these into one downlead. The Antennas direct EU385CF is a great way to take UHF and VHF dedicated antennas and combine them. Put DB8e coax into the UHF input, then put the HD1850 coax into the VHF input. Run single lead down into home.

The HD1850 is being used exclusively for VHF reception in this configuration.

Run coax lead to ONE TV and scan and see what you have.

Make sure you mount the antenna with the best possible line of sight. If you are battling through trees at magnetic 27, NBC may be off the table no matter what. A reasonably clear line of sight is mandatory for any shot at NBC.

Mount DB8e on a mast 4' above the HD1850.

To reiterate:
Antennas Direct DB8e: PBS, FOX, CW
Panel 1 heading: 195
Panel 2 heading: 240

Antennacraft HD1850: NBC, ABC, CBS
Heading: 27

You can have the option of 3 TVs. The first though is attempt one signal TV with the coax straight from the antenna. If reception is satisfactory but when split it becomes unsatisfactory on one or more TVs, a Channel Master 3414 4 port amp may be needed to offset those signal losses.

I wouldn't run a preamp either at this location.

Best of luck!

StephanieS · 18-Jul-2014, 1:33 PM

Oh and I don't see an elevation on your TVfool map. Could you rerun with your proposed antenna height visible?

chrispy · 18-Jul-2014, 2:16 PM

Here is the report with 25' estimated height (one story house on basement with low pitch roof). http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e1c6c8a9b609dc

StephanieS · 18-Jul-2014, 5:29 PM

For Curiosity can you post elevations for each height of:

35'
45'
55'

What I'm trying for is to see if there is a tangible benefit if you go higher.

chrispy · 18-Jul-2014, 5:49 PM

35' http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e1c6502d97d245

45' http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e1c6f6a322895a

55' http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e1c6cc3404ded2

For giggles, here's 100' http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e1c62bd1cc7c66

StephanieS · 18-Jul-2014, 6:33 PM

Thanks for the additional plots. They offer some additional thoughts.

WYFF comes up to 9.2 db signal strength at 40'. This is doable and allows us to abandon WYCB. You have a chance at mostly reliable reception of WYFF at this elevation.

A test would be to mount the DB8e on your roof with both panels pointed to magnetic 200. I'd expect FOX, CW and PBS with ease. The acid test will be if NBC pops in.

This would relieve you of the HD1850 all band antenna. You could go small, almost an HBU 22 orientated to magnetic 180 to 190 in replacement. This would receive ABC and CBS.

The signal combiner system is still the same as before.

Now, how do you get the antennas to 40 to 45'? If your roof is 25 at it's highest point you can purchase a chimney mount and get a 10' pole. That gets you 35'. Another option is a Rohn push up mast. They come in heights up to 55'. These would need some form of reenforcement. The push up mast though is if 35' doesn't work and you want to test the next level.

Thus, I'll amend my prior ideas. For a test, I'd get a chimney mount for the antennas, a 10' 1 and 1/4" metal pole from your local hardware store. Mount DB8e on top, HBU 22 on bottom. After combining antennas (DB8e UHF/HBU22 VHF) into one lead... test reception.

This is the entry level test to see if you can get NBC without going to the next level.

Cheers

chrispy · 18-Jul-2014, 7:25 PM

If that is what it'll take to get NBC, I may just renew my Hulu subscription and deal with NBC online. I don't think the hassle is worth the reward, in this case. I'm sure there is a simpler solution to get the rest of the networks. I really appreciate the information and advice so far. Thank you!

StephanieS · 18-Jul-2014, 7:53 PM

With the broadband options, you may be able have a nicely viable option with Hulu.

Or if you have family that lives closer to broadcast towers with a good internet connection the Slingbox Pro HD might be a good idea. In essence the slingbox takes over the air signals and makes them available over your home computer network or can remotely accessed, like a remote TV tuner.

You can still pick them up at Tigerdirect.