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Old 19-May-2017, 10:19 PM   #1
harold
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Picture quality

* I have a two antenna setup. Both are antenna direct HDB91X. One is pointed at 300 degrees, the other is pointed 130. The top one is pointed at 130 and is approximately 30 feet. The other is at 26 feet. Both have 3 foot cable into combiner, with 16 inch from combiner to channel master 7777. A 34 foot cable from booster to power in attic, three foot to spliter and two fifteen foot cables to two TV's.
I believe my setup is good. The problem I have is most of the time all channels I'm trying to get come in great. I have a TIVO and when I set to record some times instead of recording with K32IC it will try from another KJTL or K20JB. I also get interference from K18IZ and cant pick up K18HX.
On windy days I lose picture on K34JJ and K35 KE. Not both at the same time and the signal strength for TIVO will show in the 60's without a pictures.
Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Here is the link for my location.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e6a4ffb1ad0383
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Old 19-May-2017, 11:52 PM   #2
JoeAZ
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Harold, you do not specify how close any trees or other obstructions are to your antennas or home. You also do not mention what kind of cable you use. More information on
those two areas will help determine a response.
I also live where translators supply much of the broadcast
signals. Your rural situation is more challenging than most
city locations.
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Old 21-May-2017, 4:49 PM   #3
harold
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There are on trees or other obstructions between me and the tower at 296, or 349. I have no problem with the south east 134. KAUZ and KSWO are the only channels I'm trying to receive from that direction. Actually the only channel I need in that direction is KSWO. I get a live stream by internet for KAUZ. Just can't record on TIVO. The cables I'm using were made for me by the local cable company. On the cover says, series 6 CATV.
I read somewhere that with two antenna they should be at least three feet apart, and should be connected with equal length cables. That is how I know the length of all my cables. K34JJ and K35KE problem I've heard is the OKC channels cut power. I also thought FCC wouldn't allow two channels be as close together as the K18IZ, K18HX are. They are less then 70 miles apart.
I'm thinking my best option will be to set the two at 296, and 349. forget trying KAUZ. maybe add a vhf for KSWO.
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Old 21-May-2017, 6:08 PM   #4
JoeAZ
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Hi Harold,
I studied your situation carefully. You get Lawton/Wichita Falls stations
from translators in Altus and from the market directly. You get OKC
stations from translators near Hollis. Your translators in Altus are close
enough and strong enough that you may be able to aim one of your
current antennas directly at Hollis translators and still receive your
local Altus translators properly. That antenna would need a dedicated
RG6 run and here is why. The issue you are having with Rf 18 and
some others is that some of your tuners are unable to deal with two
stations so close, distance wise, on the same frequency. I would
keep the other antenna aimed at your main market transmitters
and translators serving Lawton and Wichita Falls. That antenna
might work better being separated from the other(s). For your sole
VHF station, I would suggest the MCM Electronics VHF antenna.
It is inexpensive $25.00 and performs decently. It is not unusual at
all for translators to be spaced well less than 70 miles apart on the
same Rf. That is why I strongly recommend keeping antenna RG6
cables separated. It prevents lots of problems, especially down
the road.....
We have issues with translators in Williams, Flagstaff, Prescott
and on Mingus Mtn in Arizona many on the same frequency and
some as close as 40 miles apart.
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Old 21-May-2017, 11:59 PM   #5
harold
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Hi JoeAZ,
Really appreciate your response. If I understand correctly Leave antenna pointed at 300 for OKC and Altus channels. The Altus tower only has K32IC and K43KS. Both are Wichita Falls channels. KJTL, the Fox network is 15 in Grandfield OK, translated from Altus as K32IC, from Hollis as K20JB. K43KS from Altus and 28 KFDX from Wichita Falls is NBC. The K19AA is also Altus but a different tower that is PBS translated from channel 8 in Cheyenne Ok. Then the Hollis is my main concern. K20JB from Hollis isn't a channel in my TIVO channel list. The K18IZ is PBS and to weak to pick up from the Grandfield tower.
I'm rambling here, sorry.
If I point my lower antenna at Altus and skip the booster, to get the three K32IC Fox, K19AA PBS. and K43KS NBC. I don't know what those other channels listed are. A couple are sub channels from K34JJ in Hollis and K25JO is supposed to be same as K43KS. The K25JO shows a very strong signal but no picture or audio. The others have a No video Icon.
Hollis I wish to get K34JJ CBS, K35KE NBC, K18HX ABC, K44IW FOX, K47LS IND. So point top Antenna at Hollis with booster. In this scenario I'm combining the two antennas after the booster.
Your description is run two RG6 cables from both antennas to each tvs? If I bring two cables to the TIVO, I can only connect one at the time so I would be connecting and disconnecting each time I wish to record.
The channel 22 KAUZ is CBS, and K34JJ is CBS. 22 is Wichita Falls and 34 is OKC. On Sundays during Football season I would like to record both. K32IC, Fox Wichita Falls, K44IW also Fox in OKC and I would like to record on Sundays. About the only thing I record on channel 11 is local news. I can get it with an antenna pointed at Altus. 22 CBS I receive live by internet. That is the only channel I pointed to Wichita Falls for.
I see a problem with the two 18 if I use both pointed to Hollis and Wichita Falls. Take away Wichita and I should get rid of the conflict from 18 in Grandfield. The CBS is also translated on K29FR at 225 degrees with NM of -2.0. The VHF 11 is also translated from that tower K31HC, NM -2.2. Actually all the Wichita Falls channels are translated from that tower at 225 degrees. I don't think I could get anything from there with any consistency.
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Old 22-May-2017, 5:04 PM   #6
JoeAZ
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Hi Harold,

The information on the F.C.C. site is either outdated or just plain wrong.
Thanks for explaining in such good detail what you receive and from
what broadcast point. I had a bit of a revelation overnight. You are not
alone with Tivo reception issues. It seems like many of the issues on
this site are with Tivo. Apparently, the tuners are pretty lousy overall.
Just a thought. Can you connect one of your antennas directly to the
Tivo, on a temporary basis, using 50 feet or less of RG6??? Since the
Tivo seems to have the most issues, if you can get good reception with
it, everything else should fall into place. You might want to try aiming
at Hollis, Grandfield and/or Wichita Falls for a day or two each. See
what happens with and without any Booster/amplifier.......

Regards,
Joe
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Old 22-May-2017, 6:39 PM   #7
harold
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Thanks again JoeAZ,

I'm a new cord cutter and just cut DTV. With DTV I received local channels from Wichita, and Lawton. I had an AM21 with one antenna pointed at Hollis. Couldn't really count on the channels to be very dependable for OKC. Started with wineguard 8200 VHF/UHF. Then found with digital most networks went UHF. I thought 3/ NBC ( real 22 ) was 3 VHF. I traded out the 8200 for a long HDB91X. With the one pointed to Hollis I received the PBS perfect from Altus, and had the Sunday ticket for football.
About a year ago I got a ROKU. Netflix, Amazon Prime, and the OKC channels were pretty consistent, I found PS Vue has all but local channels I watch. Well as previous mentioned PS Vue does have the Wichita Falls CBS. Only live with no way to record. To cut DTV I needed to have something to record. Researched the TABLO, TIVO, and decided on the TIVO Roamio OTA. Might have been a bad decision. Since I was going to be saving about 100.00 a month spend now and save later. Might be questionable.
Got with the local cable guy cut all new cables bought new HDB91X antenna, combiner used from DTV, pointed both antennas according to tvfool.
Well system is up and not working the way I Thought. Big learning curve. There are no antenna people around here so I'm getting educated by bad experience.
Guess I could have used some of DTV cables but wanted to get rid of a lot of extra cable and all new was pretty easy. Now I would have to get help to remove antennas and would be more difficult to run a new then it was to replace the old with new.
A Solid Signal supposed to be antenna pro says my booster may be to strong. I don't remember at the moment, but my antenna gain and the tower signal combined from Hollis should be around NM 30. Although not pointed directly at Altus with less then ten miles with LOS the three channels I'm trying to get should be strong also.
Before putting up the second antenna I was also getting the high VHF 11 channel from the back side, but didn't check very often because I was getting it with DTV..
With the AM21 I only recorded a few programs mostly the sub channels, me tv and antv. During bad weather we would watch the antenna channels, OKC Fox sub is weather channel, Lawton ABC (11) is considered our local for weather, Although OKC (34), (35) NBC,CBS have better coverage with storm spotters.
If I can find some help I think Ill point the top at the 225 degrees and bottom at 300. Run a channel scan see what the TIVO will do and just cable to second tv.
I'll let you know what the results are. May have to change some of my setup. Now I have the combiner and booster between the two antennas.
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Old 23-May-2017, 12:22 PM   #8
JoeAZ
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Harold,
Don't be too hard on yourself. You've done a great job
with your system. The problems you are experiencing
are much more caused by a poor tuner on your Tivo
and the close proximity of translators on the same Rf
frequency. You'll also notice that some of the people
on this forum who could help or comment won't, only
because you don't need an antenna they want to sell
you.........
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Old 23-May-2017, 5:57 PM   #9
rickbb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeAZ View Post
You'll also notice that some of the people
on this forum who could help or comment won't, only
because you don't need an antenna they want to sell
you.........
I have not found that to be the case at all. Most of the people here are not affiliated with any company. Some of the most knowledgeable people here are retired RF engineers with nothing to gain from pushing products to anyone. No one has ever said "go buy this because I get something from selling it" that I can recall. I doubt that the forum would tolerate such behavior. I make my own antennas, so they can't sell me anything and still I get plenty of help from everyone here.


Harold;

Combining antennas is a hit or miss deal. Not easy and sometimes it's just a matter of luck when it does work.

Start with just one antenna, no amp, a single TV with as short a cable run as possible, aim the antenna at your best direction at a good signal. This will give you a chance to see what can be done at your location. I've gotten on the roof with a small 25" LCD TV and 10 feet of cable to aim antennas. Beats the heck out of going up and down the ladder and in and out of the living room a few hundred times to nail down a good location/direction.

Trees are big issues with UHF especially, moving the antenna left, right, up and down just a few feet can sometimes make huge differences in reception quality.
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Old 23-May-2017, 8:01 PM   #10
JoeAZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickbb View Post
I have not found that to be the case at all. Most of the people here are not affiliated with any company. Some of the most knowledgeable people here are retired RF engineers with nothing to gain from pushing products to anyone. No one has ever said "go buy this because I get something from selling it" that I can recall. I doubt that the forum would tolerate such behavior. I make my own antennas, so they can't sell me anything and still I get plenty of help from everyone here.
.
That is laughable........ One person is a sales representative for
Antennas Direct. I have NEVER seen him recommend anything but
one of his companies clearstream antennas. No matter what the situation, no matter how inappropriate, he ALWAYS recommends his own brand. He is not alone. There are several others who frequently do the same.
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Old 24-May-2017, 1:39 PM   #11
rickbb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeAZ View Post
That is laughable........ One person is a sales representative for
Antennas Direct. I have NEVER seen him recommend anything but
one of his companies clearstream antennas. No matter what the situation, no matter how inappropriate, he ALWAYS recommends his own brand. He is not alone. There are several others who frequently do the same.
You need to look closer, he's not in sales, and he does indeed recommend products that are not made by his company. He has recommended them to me.
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Old 24-May-2017, 2:45 PM   #12
ADTech
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FOR THE RECORD!








My affiliation is plainly and clearly stated. I represent my employer and I am here to support our customers and our products first and foremost as that is my charter. I can and do occasionally choose to participate in discussions unrelated to the above and that is my personal prerogative. It all depends on whatever happens to pique my personal interest and if I feel that I can make a positive contribution to the discussion.

In the case of this particular thread, I was unavailable for several days and, when I read your analysis upon my return, I had nothing to offer as you had already covered it well and there were none of our products under discussion. Therefore, no additional comment was needed regarding this thread's original inquiry.

I cordially invite you to expand your time frame of reference regarding my participation in this and other online forums since you are recently arrived to this forum. Do keep up the good work in helping as many forum participants as you choose to!

Cheers!
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Old 26-May-2017, 10:43 PM   #13
harold
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Today the issue is fr 20 isn't available, fr 18 isn't available, fr 47 is locked at 67 with peak of 72. no pix frequency 44 is locked in at 72 with peak 72 and some pix. fr 35 locked at 44 with peak of 49 and a lot if pixx. fr 34 locked at 62 with peak 62 no pix.. All the above mentioned channels are transited from the same translator. All originate from OKC. 18 has conflict with another weak 18. 20 may come in strong tommorow, with 34 being nonexistent, Very frustrating with no reason for the sudden channel drop out. I don't know very many antenna users and the couple I do say they believe the mother stations cut power to the translators. I hope that will change as more cut the cable and get an antenna.
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Old 27-May-2017, 2:54 AM   #14
JoeAZ
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Hi Harold,

What has your weather been like recently??? During bad
storms, translators frequently either fail completely or
operate at reduced erp (power). It may not be your system
at all. Are your system connections good and tight? Are
your connections weather or waterproof? That could be
an issue. Please keep us posted as to what is happening!
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Old 27-May-2017, 10:05 PM   #15
harold
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Weather is near desert here. Level flat, tower only thirty miles away LOS. Weather for past few days clear hot upper 80's Friday over a 100 today. I haven't tried to watch any antenna tv to day. been watching fox sports one nascar xfinity. Missed the last 25 laps of that because of base ball game. guess I'll have to wait until the game is over so I start at the beginning. Although ps vue has a option that says start at the beginning. It starts at top of 4th inning!
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Old 29-May-2017, 12:43 PM   #16
harold
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JoeAZ, I found the end of that race! I know something is being done with the translator. Yesterday I set the TIVO to record the Nascar race. I did a manual setting for 8 hours. I set it to start at 3:00 o'clock, end at 11. This setting was OKC 25 on frequency 44. I also set to record same time slot on 18 frequency 15 from Wichita Falls Texas. Both Fox stations. Weather condition was great, light northern breeze temp in low 90's. About six o'clock I started watching the race on 25. Perfect picture no pixilating until ten. Seven hours recorded perfect then within ten minutes searching for signal. By that time I was watching live due to a rain delay. Soon as as 25 started pixilating I switched to 18 and finished the race. After the race was over I checked the recording to be sure of time. Since I wasn't recording any more I preformed a signal strength and all but two were in the upper sixties. 9 CBS frequency 35 and 25 Fox frequency 44. Frequency 44 had no signal and 35 had peak of 52 with pixilating when dropping into the upper 40's. According to tvfool the NM for the Wichita Falls channel 6 frequency 22 should be the most difficult channel for me. I seldom lose that signal. I even recorded and watched the Indy on ABC 7 frequency 11. Since I can't get 5 on frequency 18 ABC. Conflicting frequency 18 PBS channel 10. The high VHF 11 came in perfect from 40 miles away with my hdb90x UHF antenna. Did you see the link for antenna direct? I checked it out and when I entered my ZIP no antenna found any channels! I'm convinced my problem isn't my setup or the TiVo tuner. Not enough antenna users so I believe power is being cut.
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Old 29-May-2017, 1:55 PM   #17
ADTech
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The "tool" that the marketing department put on the website only reflects full-power stations, its database doesn't include translators or LP stations.

Quote:
Not enough antenna users so I believe power is being cut.
Nope. Doing that would sacrifice their operating license. Power isn't reduced unless there is a technical need to do so (component failure, repair work at antenna site, etc...).
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Old 29-May-2017, 3:29 PM   #18
harold
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Thanks ADTech, do you have any idea why that translator has such moment by moment signal drops. In my previous post, I stated the recording was good for seven hours. This morning that channel isn't even my line up. I'm doing a channel scan to see if is strong enough to even be seen again. I understand weather, objects, and antenna placement has a lot to do with reception. If non of that changes then what. Just finished the scan. Picture perfect!
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Old 29-May-2017, 5:05 PM   #19
JoeAZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harold View Post
JoeAZ, I found the end of that race! I know something is being done with the translator. Yesterday I set the TIVO to record the Nascar race. I did a manual setting for 8 hours. I set it to start at 3:00 o'clock, end at 11. This setting was OKC 25 on frequency 44. I also set to record same time slot on 18 frequency 15 from Wichita Falls Texas. Both Fox stations. Weather condition was great, light northern breeze temp in low 90's. About six o'clock I started watching the race on 25. Perfect picture no pixilating until ten. Seven hours recorded perfect then within ten minutes searching for signal. By that time I was watching live due to a rain delay. Soon as as 25 started pixilating I switched to 18 and finished the race. After the race was over I checked the recording to be sure of time. Since I wasn't recording any more I preformed a signal strength and all but two were in the upper sixties. 9 CBS frequency 35 and 25 Fox frequency 44. Frequency 44 had no signal and 35 had peak of 52 with pixilating when dropping into the upper 40's. According to tvfool the NM for the Wichita Falls channel 6 frequency 22 should be the most difficult channel for me. I seldom lose that signal. I even recorded and watched the Indy on ABC 7 frequency 11. Since I can't get 5 on frequency 18 ABC. Conflicting frequency 18 PBS channel 10. The high VHF 11 came in perfect from 40 miles away with my hdb90x UHF antenna. Did you see the link for antenna direct? I checked it out and when I entered my ZIP no antenna found any channels! I'm convinced my problem isn't my setup or the TiVo tuner. Not enough antenna users so I believe power is being cut.
Happy Memorial Day Harold,
I would tend to agree that your system is working properly.
A very common problem with translators is that by their very
nature, they are remote. With all the cuts made at television
stations, especially recently, engineers have little time to check
and see how their translators are operating. They might have
a few minutes to monitor, if everything looks good for those few
minutes, they move on to the next translator. It appears that
you lose certain translators and not all of them. If you were
to lose everything on one antenna, then you know the problem
is at your end.... I would suggest you call or email the stations
which you are having problems receiving. Ask for the "engineering"
department. Explain to them that you are losing their signal
and not some others... I did that many years ago. Now I
monitor the translators for much of Northern Arizona. If there's
a problem, I either call their cell phone or email them. They
usually respond within an hour or two and make repairs in a day
or two.
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Old 1-Jun-2017, 12:03 AM   #20
harold
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I was just checking the translator in Quanah and it has two channel 7's. One is Lawton Ok. frequency 31, and the other is Amarillo TX. frequency 39. How does that work? I've noticed on the TiVo a channel from several towers will be in the list is that how that would be? Display channel with each, or choose a frequency? Both are ABC but have different sub channels.
Am I missing something but I've read that NM 0 or above should result in a suitable signal. Frequency 29, and 31 are the only two I'm interested in. According to tvfool the NM for 29 is -1.9 and 31 is -2.1.
My logic says with an antenna with +13 gain I should be able to get those with a +10 cushion! Or do I need to go higher and get the NM above zero? Thanks!
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