Help with antenna (Brookfield Conn.)

antennaCT · 2-Mar-2014, 5:07 PM

Hello,

Please help with antenna (Brookfield Conn.)

I've recently (the past two weeks) been learning about OTA and built three different 4 bay units for testing basing the design from http://m4antenna.eastmasonvilleweather.com/index.html

What I have done and what my hopes are. -– Drop Cable TV – See my tvfool report below*

1. 4 bay (1st test)

9.5” whiskers, 9” spacing, 3/16” dia. metal whiskers (very sturdy). 1 1/2” forward bend.
No reflector.
#14 copper phase lines.
CM-94444 Balun and or Radio Shack Balun.
10' RG6 cable

1. Interior test got the following.
WTBY-TV 27

WTNH-DT 10 (8.1) ABC

WZME 42 (43.1)

WRNN-DT 48 (48.1)

W22BN (Not interested)

WVIT-DT 35 NBC

2. 4bay (2nd test)

9.5” whiskers, 9” spacing, 3/8 copper tubing whiskers.
No reflector.
#14 copper phase lines.
CM-94444 Balun and or Radio Shack Balun.
10' RG6 cable

Interior test. This seemed to get a few more channels than the 3/16” metal whiskers unit above but can't remember for sure.

Flattened the copper where the two whiskers came together for screw hole attachment. This seems to be an area that would and did bend very easily.

Elements broke (dropped), decided to move on to different build.

3. 8 bay (4 bay side by side 26” spacing between) (3rd test)

9.5” whiskers, 9” spacing, 3/16” dia. metal whiskers (very sturdy). 1 1/2” forward bend.
#14 copper phase lines.
No reflector.
Co-phase lines connecting the two units together #14 wire non-stripped other than at connection points. They are separated by 1” using 4 plastic blocks with holes to feed wire through them. Both are exact length. Single balun connected at middle of phase line.
CM-94444 Balun.
About 100' RG6 cable.
No amplifier

This thing picks up some channels!

Exterior test outside, mounted at about 18' from ground. Temp set up of pvc pole securely fastened to house wall up to 14'. The last 2' had a union and a 35-50 mph wind gust broke the union connection. Yeap it came down! No damage other than the unit itself. Rebuild needed.

Antenna was pointing at about 227 degrees compass. Picked up the following channels (8 Bay metal whiskers exact location 227 degrees 20ft 2014-03-01 a.jpg)

4. Best I could tell from the TV info the signals were at around 50 % +/- on most channels (is this good bad or normal?). I noticed a few lost connection at times. It was a little windy and thought that had something to do with it.

8 Bay metal whiskers exact location 227 degrees 20ft 2014-03-01 a.jpg

8 bay metal whiskers exact location 227 Degrees 20ft 2014-03-01.ods

227 Degree View at Gable with proposed antenna.jpg

Chimney With 227 Degree View and proposed antenna .jpg

TVFool exact location 20ft 227 degrees.jpg

TVFool exact location 25ft 227 degrees.jpg

TVFool exact location 30ft 227 degrees.jpg

4 bay bowtie 2014-02-24_0 a.jpg

–---------------------------

Here are some questions and my goals. Any and all suggestions will be appreciated:

*
TV Fool at 20' or http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...46aed6c9ffbc1d

TV Fool at 25' or http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b9403fa207f4a

TV Fool at 30' or http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b94ff74ae86b1

I've attached some images which show exact location info from TVFool. There is also a speed sheet showing what received channels (signal) came in for the 8 Bay unit during its short life.

Cost is a factor. I'm using material on hand.

Don't have any equipment to discern signal quality or strength other than TV (VIZIO E191VA) which shows a bar of 10 bullets with hi-lighting fill in to show signal. The channels that I could view seemed to look fine. This antenna was only up for a very short time and never got the chance to turn it in other directions.

My thoughts are to build an 8 bay unit. Two 4 bays and putting them together for an 8 bay. I'm leaning towards them being side by side rather than vertically stacked and directing it at 227 compass degrees.

Would the Co-phase lines that I used above be a good choice? #14 wire non-stripped other than at connection points. They are separated by 1” using 4 plastic blocks with holes to feed wire through them. Both are exact length. Single balun connected at middle of phase line.

Should 2 baluns instead of Co-phase line be used?

Reflector yes/no? Would I lose or gain channels? I have some 6” x 4” and 1/2” x 1/2” wire fencing.

Would #6 or #8 copper be a better choice over metal for whiskers? Seems like #10-12-14 would be much more flimsy in outdoor application.

Should whiskers and phase lines be made out of the same material and the same size in diameter?

Antenna to be installed above rooftop either chimney or gable mount about 20' - 30' off ground in total.

TV = one
Cable run about 100'.
Mounting pole = 1 1/4” metal emt.
1. Gable mounted 10' emt pole would only have about 2' of base pole mounting area due to another roof below giving a 20' - 25' ground height.
2. Chimney mount would be the higher (25' - 30') but there a some trees in LOS (227 degrees) about 70' away and maybe about 20' higher (50' from ground).

What height can a 1 1/4” metal emt pole extend with out guide wires? I know this is relative to antenna and how base is attached but just looking for some general guidelines.

Is a signal from the TV info of 50% +/- going to be viewable and sustainable during the summer or anytime for that mater?

Is a 50% signal strength hi or low from TVFool report?

It appears there might be some co-channel problem's. How do I get the following channels:

7 (7.1) ABC, 13 (13.1) PBS, 31 (31.1) ION,
33 (2.1) CBS seems to be ok

Should I use a rotator or build multiple antennas placed in different locations?
If a rotator what style _____?

Should I use an amplifier and how much will/would this help?
What style ______?

How does one ground all this? The coaxial cable I have (RG6) has a separate ground wire molded on the side of it.

Thanks for the site and a special thanks to all you who have given of your time and assistance.

3-Mar-2014, 4:33 PM

+=>
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For reception of as many Digital Broadcast Tv Stations/Channels as possible in the directions of , West , South West , South , South East , East.

With 1 antenna aimed in 1 direction.

At 30 feet antenna height or higher above ground.

Install a , http://www.antennacraft.net ,

HD1800 All channel antenna.

Install a , http://www.antennacraft.net ,

10G201 preamplifier.

The 10G201 preamplifier will be operated in the combined antenna mode.

The FM radio trap switch of the 10G201 preamplifier will be in the in/on position.

------------

Aim the , HD1800 antenna at about 227 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Use a real and Actual magnetic compass to aim antenna.

As always , trees and tree leaves , plants and plant leaves , have a Negative Effect on Broadcast Tv Reception and so do buildings and other obstructions including your own roofs and buildings.

Some and not all Negative Effects are.

Absorbing and Blocking Reception.

Multi-Path Reflecting Tv Signals Bouncing All Around.

The Best Practice for Reliable Reception is to install the HD1800 antenna at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception including your own roofs and buildings.

------------

For 1 Tv connected use No splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-2D , 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv's connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-3D , 3 way splitter.

Buy the , HFS-2D and HFS-3D , splitters at , http://www.hollandelectronics.com , or , http://www.amazon.com

-----------------------------------------------

To fine tune antenna aim and aim antenna at Tv stations that are not received with antenna aimed at about 227 degree magnetic compass direction.

Install a , www.nteinc.com/antenna-rotors.php?a=28.

However Know this about antenna rotation.

Antenna rotation Is Not channel surfing friendly , must wait for antenna to rotate.

Antenna rotation Is Not recording friendly.

And their Will Be Domestic Situations about the direction the antenna is aimed.

-------------

To Discover What Digital Broadcast Tv Stations/Channels Are Received with the HD1800 antenna aimed at the 227 degree magnetic compass direction.

Install the antenna system.

-------------

DO NOT connect the HD1800 antenna to any other type or kind of antenna.

DO NOT connect the above described and recommended antenna system to any other antenna or antenna system.

antennaCT · 4-Mar-2014, 5:18 PM

@ teleview

Thanks you for all the information, this is part of what I was hoping for. I'm not in a position at the moment of being able to purchase antenna. Cable cost has gone up in a very short period of time, one because lower price term (sale price) has ended and then a price increase on top. Cable is not offering any other price reductions and I'm just not able to come up with the $. Hopefully the financial situation will change and at that point I'd be able to purchase the equipment you've described. I will not be going back to cable if at all possible. Please note that I'm going to keep and use the info you mentioned for which I'm very grateful.

You brought up a good point about the rotor "Antenna rotation Is Not channel surfing friendly" I can see this could be a potential for, well, one could only imagine.

Maybe a totally separate antenna would be something to think about. You did mention

Quote:

DO NOT connect the HD1800 antenna to any other type or kind of antenna.

DO NOT connect the above described and recommended antenna system to any other antenna or antenna system.

. So should a second coaxial cable, totally separate be sent to TV with maybe some type of switch?

At this time I'm trying to build an antenna with materials on hand just to get something working for the kids and family. Any suggestions in this area would also be well accepted.

It sure seems like there would be no need for cable at my location anyway.

Again I want to thank you for your assistance and help.

GroundUrMast · 5-Mar-2014, 2:03 AM

Though the M4 type antenna is able to offer some H-VHF reception, it's strong suit is UHF.

Consider the GH series designs... http://clients.teksavvy.com/~nickm/

5-Mar-2014, 4:13 AM

+=>
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For reception of as many Tv stations/channels as can be received with your home made UHF antennas.

Aim 1 antenna at about 140 degree magnetic compass direction and the other antenna at about 240 degree magnetic compass direction.

You can -Test Reception- using a reversed splitter to combine the 2 home made antennas.

The cable length from each antenna to the reversed splitter Must Be the same length.

-->The splitter must be.<--

Non Power Passing - Capacitor coupled.

or

Non Power Passing - Micro Strip Line coupled.

These types of splitters have isolation of splitter connections.

Because their is no direct connections of the splitters connection ports inside the splitter.

The isolation type splitters reduce antenna cross talk and signal strength power reduction of one antenna to the other antenna.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Another way to do it is use a Simple A/B Push Button Antenna Switch to change from 1 antenna to the other antenna.

The Tv Must have a , channel add , and or , channel add scan capability.

If the Tv is channel add capable then the channel that is entered in , Must Be the Real Channel that is transmitted and received.

The Tvfool channel list shows the Real Channel in the Real Channel Column.

The (virt) number , virtual number column Is Not a Real Channel , even if the virtual number is the same as the Real Channel.

-----------------

Or you can aim 1 of your home made antennas , South , and what is received is , what is received.

antennaCT · 12-Mar-2014, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GroundUrMast

Though the M4 type antenna is able to offer some H-VHF reception, it's strong suit is UHF.

Consider the GH series designs... http://clients.teksavvy.com/~nickm/

There sure is a wealth of new information to me I'll be reading up on from the above link.

Thank you GroundUrMast.

antennaCT · 12-Mar-2014, 1:45 AM

@ teleview,

Thank you for the additional info on the splitter and A/B switch.

I had the chance this week end to test a home made prototype of an 8 bay bowtie. Was able to get quite a few channels aiming @ +/- 227/240 degrees. It was at 26' AGL w/o any masts wires the last 12'. Didn't feel safe going any higher for this test.

You mentioned a , http://www.antennacraft.net , 10G201 preamplifier. I check in my area but no one carries it, I know I can order on line but was hoping to be able to get it locally for any support issues. There were only two that I could find locally an RCA model # TVPRAMP1R (about $25.00) and DigiTenna model # DT-RAMP20-1 ($60.00). Do you or any body else know if either of these would be any good? Return polices for both are very easy. $60.00 is a bit more than what I can spend, but I don't want to do this twice either so I might have to wait awhile.

The http://www.antennacraft.net , 10G201 preamplifier is priced in between these other two but would/could order on line if it is much better.

One TV location but cable goes through VCR/DVD/TV (This is the way my son has it set up to record DVD's from what he explained to me).

TV Fool at 25' or http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b9403fa207f4a

TV Fool at 30' or http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b94ff74ae86b1

Thanks

GroundUrMast · 12-Mar-2014, 1:52 AM

My experience with the TVPRAMP1R has been excellent. I'd recommend it in most applications that call for an amplifier.

antennaCT · 12-Mar-2014, 1:57 AM

@ GrounUrMast, That is encouraging and a quick response. Thanks again.