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Old 12-Apr-2014, 9:19 PM   #1
Lewis
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Middle of Nowhere West TN

Here is my TV Fool map http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b9444ea96b18a I am basically located in the center of the three larger TV markets of Memphis, TN, Nashville, TN & Paducah, KY thus from here at my location the station transmitter towers in those areas usually range from 80-100 miles away. I currently am able to receive on a 24 hour , 7 day a week basis the local stations WBBJ (19 miles) , WLJT(14 miles) , WJKT (31 miles) , WUWT (46 miles), WKMU (54 miles) & an analog channel unlisted on the page, 24 WQTV (46 miles). The local WJTD channel listed does not exist here. Anyway, in past half year OTA TV DX'ing & viewing I have seen the vast majority of channels listed on this page plus some more on out to 250 miles at some time or another when I get a little help from the atmospheric "skip" but as we know that is inconsistent. What I am really after are these larger stations in the 80-100 mile out range on a consistent basis which still will only come in with a little help from the atmosphere. In my location relative to the surrounding terrain I am pretty much in the higher portion of the county @ 500 ft. above sea level & other than saying I have an unobstructed view 360 degrees & can turn any direction with the rotor, (a few treetops are in my line of sight here & there but nothing much within 100 yards). I am using a 27 ft. 2" OD antenna mast AGL , a 50 ft. run of RG-6 connecting the Sanyo TV w/o a signal strength meter , to a RCA TVPRAMP1R pre-amp (with the FM trap turned on) & from there out of the "combined vhf/uhf input" another 5 ft. run of RG-6 connected to a HDB8X (both sides of the antenna are aimed parallel). I do know is not designed to pick up the low vhf anyway but any suggestions to improve upon this rig or something to check/add without spending a fortune would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 12-Apr-2014, 9:48 PM   #2
teleview
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Please make and post 3 more Tv fool reports , 40 , 60 , 80 , feet antenna heights above ground.
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Old 12-Apr-2014, 10:49 PM   #3
bwag32
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I was using the HDB8X and ended up going to the winegard HD7689p with that same rca pre-amp. Im in mid tn and have a lot of hills around me. This has worked great for me
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Old 12-Apr-2014, 11:29 PM   #4
Lewis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teleview View Post
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Please make and post 3 more Tv fool reports , 40 , 60 , 80 , feet antenna heights above ground.
now we talking about a tower
40 ft. AGL hypothetical http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b947fc2a7a638 60 ft. AGL hypothetical http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b941e7e567c6b & 80 ft. AGL hypothetical http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b940a8ce3af9d here is even a 500 ft. AGL for kicks http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5b94e102cc2a00
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Old 15-Apr-2014, 9:05 AM   #5
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500 feet antenna height above ground will do it.

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I recommend start at your current antenna height.

With your current antenna aimed at about 240 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

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To Test for reliable reception of.

WATN-TV Real UHF channel 25 , (virt) virtual number (24.1) , ABC.

WLMT-DT Real UHF channel 31 , (virt) virtual number (30.1) , CW and MyNetwork and Me-Tv.

Install a , Professional Grade Preamplifier.

EMCEE , PA-20U-75 .

PA=Preamplifier.

20U=20dB gain amplification of UHF channels.

75= 75 ohm coax input and output.

http://www.emceecom.com/Documents/EM...-Amplifier.pdf .

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Can also aim the UHF antenna at about 340 degree magnetic compass direction and Test for reliable reception of.

WUWT-CD Real UHF channel 26 , (virt) virtual number (x) , America One.

WPSD-DT Real UHF channel 32 , (virt) virtual number (6.1) , NBC , Heartland and Antenna Tv.

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The Tvfool reports show small improvements in signal strengths at the 60 and 80 foot antenna heights.


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EMCEE also makes preamplifiers for the VHF channels.

To Test for reception of WMC-DT Real VHF low band channel 5 , (virt) virtual number (5.1) , NBC and Bounce Tv and This Tv .

Will require a separate VHF low band antenna and EMCEE VHF Preamplifier.

And can use a Antennacraft , Y5-2-6 low band antenna as a Test antenna.


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The EMCEE web site is typical of professional web sites.

Not user friendly , because industry professionals already know what they are looking for , 'sort of' , in as much as they deal with the same types and kinds of equipment.

http://www.emceecom.com.

The VHF preamplifiers are not shown on the web site , however are available.

Typical of profesional web sites.


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Last edited by teleview; 21-Apr-2014 at 4:50 PM. Reason: Clarify information and typos.
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Old 17-Apr-2014, 1:38 AM   #6
Lewis
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Thanks for the input Teleview, I take it you figure I am going to need some more extreme measures, height AGL & more robust pre-amp to send the signal through the coax to pull these 80-100 mile out channels regularly from the fringe here. I ask EMCEE in an email about pricing me that couple pre-amps and the Antennacraft Y5-2-6 low band antenna wont be any problem getting from Radio Shack but I cringe at the thought of forking out the bucks for a nice tower right now (maybe later in future) but at Home Depot I could get Channel Master CM 1850 telescopic mast seems easy enough for the time being. I think It extends out to 41 ft. & I could put my rotor atop that with another 5-6 ft. length of mast like I already have a UHF antenna & RCA pre-amp on. Not sure but I presume I would be ok putting the Y5-2-6 low band antenna 3 ft . under the HDB8X up at the top without interference.
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Old 17-Apr-2014, 2:11 AM   #7
Lewis
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I don't know what the result will be but I am entertaining the idea of putting an identical pre-amps on each side of the HDB8X since it is actually two 4 bay antennas combined to begin with along with, (courtesy Pete Higgins post on Solid Signal website) possibly tilting it upwards about 5 to 10 degrees to see if there is a reliable skip off the atmosphere for some of these 80 to 100 mile out signals.
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Old 17-Apr-2014, 2:22 AM   #8
Lewis
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Teleview, WUWT-CD Real UHF channel 26, yes I get that one anyway 24/7 the other stations you mentioned I can get but not consistently with what I am currently working with.
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Old 17-Apr-2014, 4:45 PM   #9
teleview
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Here are some , Light Weight , Aluminum , Free Standing , Lay Over Towers.

Do antenna installation and adjustments standing on the ground.

http://www.palcoelectronics.com.
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Old 18-Apr-2014, 12:26 AM   #10
Lewis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teleview View Post
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Here are some , Light Weight , Aluminum , Free Standing , Lay Over Towers.

Do antenna installation and adjustments standing on the ground.

http://www.palcoelectronics.com.
TY for the info Teleview..."Do antenna installation and adjustments standing on the ground" I agree wholeheartedly if it is possible, stay off the roof & ladders. Awesome stuff there, got to love the idea of "Free-Standing NO guy wires needed". I got some of those taller versions on my bucket/wish list. When I saw the bases there at that site, it reminded me of a recent experience. I have a friend that lives close by with a large older 2 story house with a metal roof. I helped put up an all home made & heavy 50 ft. mast made of 2" OD steel pipe attached to a horseshoe shaped pivot anchored into the ground attached to a block of concrete footing with holes drilled through the steel foot & lower part of the mast & a "1 OD pin (like a tractor implement uses) through it for a pivot, kind of the same manner shown & described here @ the site you showed me http://www.palcoelectronics.com/tower_installation.aspx as it seems work on the same principle for the towers there & is a good idea. That 50'er of course is necessary to get above the metal roof & get a 360 degree view but was too much for 2 men to push/prop up by hand (we tried lol) as we used a block & tackle attached to the eves with a very long steel cable & pickup truck to erect it (lowered same way in reverse). The older house roof is too steep & slick for the average monkey to climb around on safely to put a chimney or tripod mount on so the long mast from ground level was opted for. Plus it is already there at the ground to drive in a copper rod & attach a grounding block to the mast to take care of that. We will probably be taking that one down again for the third time in about 5 years now later this summer to put something with more signal catching power on it because as of right now sadly, the only thing up on top of it is a Winegard 2000 ground plane (not bad for RV'er maybe), that replaced a Lava HD 2605 (junker imo) that had replaced an even older amplified Winegard model disk shaped ground plane that was larger than the # 2000 model but now discontinued.
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Old 18-Apr-2014, 3:47 AM   #11
teleview
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The SITCO Division of , http://www.simplicitytool.com ,

Has antennas and preamplifiers.

The preamplifiers are for the Tv channel bands , also has single Tv channel preamplifiers.

Last edited by teleview; 18-Apr-2014 at 5:55 AM. Reason: Clarify information and typos.
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Old 19-Apr-2014, 11:40 AM   #12
Lewis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teleview View Post
+=>

The SITCO Division of , http://www.simplicitytool.com ,

Has antennas and preamplifiers.

The preamplifiers are for the Tv channel bands , also has single Tv channel preamplifiers.
Aye, nice preamps , I see they are in the "array"/ "ganging" antennas business, one of those quad rigs would be a hoot to own. Think I like the idea of a couple of these Emcee PA-35U-75 one for UHF & one for low band 2-6 better than the Sitco's at the moment http://www.go2mhz.com/specimages/EMC...%20MHz3-09.pdf
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Old 19-Apr-2014, 8:01 PM   #13
teleview
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You do Know that the Professional Equipment is High Dollar.

And the Very Low Signal Strength Tv Stations are 100% Testing of reception.
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Old 20-Apr-2014, 5:56 AM   #14
Lewis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teleview View Post
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You do Know that the Professional Equipment is High Dollar.

And the Very Low Signal Strength Tv Stations are 100% Testing of reception.
Yes indeed I do, by same token in an unrelated field of enthusiasm I have is I know all I really need to have to catch fish is a cane pole, a short length of string, & a sharp hook & bait (probably could be less than $10 bucks maybe for a DIY that fishes near home on private water) yet over time I evolved into it with a bass boat loaded with electronics that cost more than the average commuter vehicle, several tackle boxes of terminal tackle & artificial lures (some large lol) & usually keep a dozen rod & reel combos in working order that function in a manner like each does a specific job/technique better than the other, similar to the way most serious golfers have 9+ clubs & a putter in the bag and may not walk the course & have a cart.
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Old 21-Apr-2014, 5:23 PM   #15
teleview
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Here is a way to receive the Tv network programing and more , Any Where.

www.slingbox.com .

http://shopping.yahoo.com/blogs/digi...201804274.html.

A Slingbox or boxes can be at home and -Sling- the Programing Anywhere.

And a Slingbox or Boxes can be At Some Other Location and receive the Tv networks or other programing and -Sling- the Networks or Other Programing To Your Location.


----------------------------------------------

And here is a Low Cost Pay Service to check out and check on from time to time.

http://www.aereo.com .

Last edited by teleview; 21-Apr-2014 at 8:11 PM. Reason: Clarify information and typos.
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Old 23-Apr-2014, 5:08 AM   #16
Lewis
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Interesting stuff Teleview, ty. Any chance you recognize this old antenna with 16 of elements being the "bowtie" look up on the front end? http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.p...3537#post43537

Last edited by Lewis; 23-Apr-2014 at 5:21 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 23-Apr-2014, 9:27 AM   #17
teleview
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O
The discontinued Channel Master CM-3617B , is the antenna of choice with Tv DXers for long distance reception.

http://www.anarc.org/wtfda/crossfire.pdf.

http://tvfmantennas.a.wiki-site.com/...Channel_Master .

Scroll down to and click on , Info on Crossfire VHF/FM Series .

Click on , Download high resolution version (688x937,16KB) .

The > < shaped elements at the front of the antenna are Not UHF elements.

The > < shaped elements are focusing director elements that help focus more signal on all the reception elements.

------------

The replacement for the CM3617B , VHF / FM antenna is the CM3671B , UHF / VHF / FM antenna.

Here is some information about different Tv antennas.

Please note that the Net Gain Charts are the closest to Real World Gain and reception.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html


-----------------------------------------


The Blonder Tongue , BTY-LP-LB , Low Band channels 2 thru 6 antenna is sold by , http://www.solidsignal.com.



_______________________________________________________________________

Here is a starting place to be involved with long distance and weak signal reception.

http://wtfda.org


_______________________________________________________________________



Here is a starting place to be more involved with antennas and reception.

http://www.antennahacks.com


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Know this about the antenna modification web sites.

Most avoid telling the complete truth.

The complete truth is that.

All antennas are a compromise antenna design.

Their is No magic antenna modification.

Improvement of one aspect of a antenna will mean a reduction of another aspect the antennas reception.

An example is the Channel Master CM4228HD.

The antenna mod people have a lot fun pointing out the compromises that were made to the UHF reception ability of reception.

And how the UHF reception can be improved , a small amount.

What the antenna mod people leave out is the mods degrade the VHF high band reception ability of the antenna.

It is like the fishing pole.

It is true that a pole that is made for fishing for Marlin can be modified for catching gold fish , However ____________________________

Last edited by teleview; 24-Apr-2014 at 6:18 AM. Reason: Clarify information and typos.
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Old 24-Apr-2014, 3:03 AM   #18
Lewis
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TY again Teleview, you must have read my mind about what I mistakenly initially thought the front 16 bow-tie/arrow shaped elements were: " The > < shaped elements at the front of the antenna are Not UHF elements.
The > < shaped elements are focusing director elements that help focus more signal on all the reception elements."
The very helpful Channel Master Rep replied in another email confirming: The replacement for the CM3617B antenna is the CM3671B antenna and of course recommended to me for my TvFool location : ) a CM-7777 pre-amp & CM-3020 antenna yet based upon my location & weak transmitter signals out there in the 80-100 mile zone I am seeking no guarantees I'll pull them in 24/7, I appreciate that honesty.

Last edited by Lewis; 24-Apr-2014 at 5:56 AM.
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