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Old 5-Aug-2014, 2:44 PM   #1
agmccall
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Can only get one channel

Hello All

Here is a link to my analysis

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e1c60969fc1500

I have tried a few antennas from walmart and no matter what I can only get one channel, channel 2 (The CW) From looking at the analysis it seems I need to have my antenna facing north. But the north side of the house is forest and the trees are at least 10-15 feet taller than the house.

Also the analysis did not pick up my address, only the town. I am at approximately 2200 elevation.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Al
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Old 5-Aug-2014, 3:50 PM   #2
agmccall
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Hello again

I was just reading another thread and a poster told how to get a more detailed location analysis when it only registers street level so here is my exact location analysis

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e1c6b6c4f3e9c5

al
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Old 5-Aug-2014, 6:03 PM   #3
stvcmty
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You said you get CW on (virtual) channel 2. WKTV, real channel UHF 29, has NBC on channel 2.1 and CW on channel 2.2, so I assume that is what you are getting. That makes sense, it is the strongest UHF station on your plot.

What types of antennas have you tried? Indoor, outdoor, un-amplified, amplified?

Many antennas would be a poor choice for the signal report you attached, you have a VHF-low station on RF6. Also, there appears to be a good bit of co channel interference at your location. You probably need a big antenna; wide side to side for VHF low stations, and long front to back for a tight pattern to reject unwanted signals.

What is your goal? Do you want an ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, CW, PBS?

If I lived where you live, I would put a winegard HD7084P all band antenna pointed at 79 degrees true as high as possible with a RCA TVPRAMP1R.
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Old 5-Aug-2014, 8:21 PM   #4
FaT Air
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Aim antenna just slightly north (79°)of true west (90°).
The trees 10 to 15 ft higher than the antenna should be no problem if, and only if, the trees are far enough away. If they're close, may have to get above them. Keep your height options open. Some times a foot lower works better.
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Old 5-Aug-2014, 9:47 PM   #5
ADTech
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Quote:
Aim antenna just slightly north (79°)of true west (90°).
That would actually be east.

Get a large, all-channel antenna and a medium gain, low noise pre-amplifier. Mount it as high as possible initially and as far back away from the tree line opposite the direction to the Albany stations (which are your best bet) and aim it at Albany.

It has been and continues to be my experience that trees are always a wild card in reception, especially for the UHF channels.
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Old 5-Aug-2014, 10:12 PM   #6
Tower Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stvcmty View Post
If I lived where you live, I would put a winegard HD7084P all band antenna pointed at 79 degrees true as high as possible with a RCA TVPRAMP1R.
I would suggest exactly the same antenna and preamp.
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Old 5-Aug-2014, 10:29 PM   #7
teleview
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Above the Peak of the Roof in such a manner that reception is not , obstructed , impeded , blocked , by the , attic , roof , building , in the directions of , East , North East , North , South East.

------------------------------------

Install a , Antennas Direct , DB8e , current UHF channels 14 thru 51 antenna.

http://www.amazon.com.

Aim 1 panel at about 65 degree magnetic compass direction.

Aim the other panel at about 110 degree magnetic compass direction.


------------------------------------

Here is how to aim antennas.

http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Use a Real and Actual magnetic compass to aim antennas , do not trust a , cell phone , tablet and etc. compass.

As always , the antenna aim and location can be adjusted for best reception.

-----------------------------------

Also about 3 feet below the DB8e antenna on the same antenna mast.

Install a , Winegard HD5030 , VHF channels 2 thru 13 antenna.

Aim the HD5030 at about 92 degree magnetic compass direction.

It looks like.

http://www.warrenelectronics.com.

Has the HD5030 in stock.

http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/HD5030.htm.

------------------------------------

Install a.

http://www.antennacraft.net.

10G221 preamplifier.

Connect the DB8e UHF antenna to the UHF connection of the 10G221 preamp.

Connect the , HD5030 VHF antenna to the VHF connection of the , 10G221 preamp.

-----------------------------------

For 1 Tv connected use No splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-2D , 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv's connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-3D , 3 way splitter.

Buy the , HFS-2D , HFS-3D , splitters at , http://www.hollandelectronics.com , or , http://www.amazon.com.

----------------------------------

Here are some above the Peak of the Roof antenna mounts.

http://www.ronard.com/909911.html. Install the , ronard(911) , 5 foot tripod antenna mount.

http://www.ronard.com/712.html , Install the , ronard(712-50-10) , 10 foot tripod antenna mount.

http://www.ronard.com/34424560.html. Install the , ronard(4560) , eave antenna mount.

http://www.ronard.com/ychim.html. Measure around the chimney and use a , ronard(2212) , ronard(2218) , ronard(2224) .

http://www.ronard.com.

------

Home Depot has , 10 foot 6 inch lengths of 1 and 3/8 inch diameter , TOP RAIL , chain link fence , PIPE , that makes good antenna mast/pipe , the price is low at about 12 dollars.

Last edited by teleview; 13-Aug-2014 at 7:50 PM. Reason: Clarify information and typos.
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Old 6-Aug-2014, 6:05 PM   #8
agmccall
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Thanks for all the replies. How far away can I have the antenna before I lose too much signal. I have a detached garage about 100 feet away, the peak is only about16' but the tree line is much farther away. The treeline from the house is only about 30 feet.

I have a conduit under ground to the house that I could run cable through and in the basement I have coax that the electrician ran for 4 different tv's, I could install a splitter at that spot

Thanks Again

al
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Old 6-Aug-2014, 6:22 PM   #9
FaT Air
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
That would actually be east.

---
Ah, sorry. you're right. Dyslexia at work.:]
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Old 6-Aug-2014, 7:31 PM   #10
ADTech
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Quote:
How far away can I have the antenna before I lose too much signal.
We'd have to know 'how much' is there before we could determine what is 'too much' loss.

A fair estimate is that RG6 will loose about 5.5- 6.0 dB per 100' or about 17' per dB of loss per foot at the highest UHF channels. Fortunately, we can utilize amplification to overcome this cabling loss so it will become much, much less of an issue. With 100' of coax from the antenna to your splitter and a four port splitter plus another 50' of coax from the splitter to the furthest room (just a guess), a preamp with a gain of about 25-30 dB and low noise (2-3 dB, at most) would work out just fine. The most capable pre-amp I've seen lately that would fit that bill is the "new" CM7777.
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Old 7-Aug-2014, 1:51 PM   #11
stvcmty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
The most capable pre-amp I've seen lately that would fit that bill is the "new" CM7777.
On paper, the Antennacraft 10G202 has 1db less UHF gain than the New 7777, but it may have lower noise. It is also less expensive. I do not have experience with either the 7777 or the 10G202, I just wanted the OP to know there were options.
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Old 7-Aug-2014, 3:39 PM   #12
ADTech
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Probably would also do the job. I've tested the 10G201, 10G221, & 10G222 but not the 10G202 so i don't have any data of my own on the 10G202.
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Old 7-Aug-2014, 4:05 PM   #13
stvcmty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agmccall View Post

I have a conduit under ground to the house that I could run cable through and in the basement I have coax that the electrician ran for 4 different tv's, I could install a splitter at that spot

Thanks Again

al
Is anything else in the conduit between the house and the detached garage? I don’t think a coax can share a conduit with power cables.

Does the detached garage have its own electrical panel with ground rod?

Mounting the antenna on the detached garage is possible, but there may be some extra considerations for grounding to prevent ground loops and a possible situation where the coax shield is carrying ground fault current.

The coax from an antenna needs to go through a discharge device or a grounding block. The mast an antenna is mounted on needs to be grounded. Electrical grounding and sub panels has special rules. I highly recommend you consult an electrician and an antenna installer to make sure everything is safely grounded. It is possible you can do it right yourself, or people on this forum could walk you through it, but we would need to know exactly what you had and if any detail was left out or if something was wired wrong when the house or the garage were built, all the advice on a forum goes out the window.
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Old 13-Aug-2014, 2:58 PM   #14
agmccall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stvcmty View Post
Is anything else in the conduit between the house and the detached garage? I don’t think a coax can share a conduit with power cables.

Does the detached garage have its own electrical panel with ground rod?

Mounting the antenna on the detached garage is possible, but there may be some extra considerations for grounding to prevent ground loops and a possible situation where the coax shield is carrying ground fault current.

The coax from an antenna needs to go through a discharge device or a grounding block. The mast an antenna is mounted on needs to be grounded. Electrical grounding and sub panels has special rules. I highly recommend you consult an electrician and an antenna installer to make sure everything is safely grounded. It is possible you can do it right yourself, or people on this forum could walk you through it, but we would need to know exactly what you had and if any detail was left out or if something was wired wrong when the house or the garage were built, all the advice on a forum goes out the window.
Hello, Sorry for the dely responding, I was away for a few days

The conduit is empty, I had it run during construction just for an extra in case I needed to run something for whatever reason.

The house is off-grid and the power system (Batteries and inverter system) is in garage and ground rods are in place.

al
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Old 13-Aug-2014, 7:47 PM   #15
teleview
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The house is off the grid.

As a way to reduce power consumption.

Reception can be Tested without and with a preamplifier.

When Reception is Tested without the preamplifier.

All parts of the preamplifier will Not be connected , preamp unit , power injector, power supply.

--------------------

When Testing reception without the preamplifier.

The 2 antennas , DB8e and HD5030 , are combined with a.

UVSJ= UHF/VHF - Separator/Joiner.

Connect the DB8e UHF antenna to the UHF connection of the UVSJ.

Connect the HD5030 VHF antenna to the VHF connection of the UVSJ.

The remaining connection of the UVSJ is connected to the Tv/s.

http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direc.../dp/B008PBTPN4.
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Old 13-Sep-2015, 5:25 PM   #16
agmccall
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Hello All again

Have been busy with other projects and had to put my antenna on hold. I revisited this thread to get the info again. Some of the products mentioned are no longer available, and with the way technology progress I was wondering if anything new is on the market.


I will be purchasing and installing antenna in the next month and a half. I will be renting a lift to install a chimney on one side of the house and thought that would be a good time to install the antenna.

The install of the antenna for me will be a one shot deal as I will not be able to get on the roof with ladders I need the lift. and at the price of rentals I can only do this once.

So any new or additional info would be greatly appreciated

Thank You

al
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Old 13-Sep-2015, 8:31 PM   #17
rabbit73
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Hello, Al:

The Winegard HD7084P antenna suggested by ADTech and Tower Guy is still the best for you, because you need WRGB on real channel 6.
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=hd7084

You can see the networks available to your zip by clicking on the callsigns here:

http://www.rabbitears.info/search.ph...pe=dBm&height=

And the aim is still 79 degrees true, 92 degrees magnetic by a pocket compass, not an iPhone compass. You can also use the green signal lines shown on the TVFOOL interactive map browser, after you move the cursor to the antenna location, to pick a landmark for aiming.
http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?opti...pper&Itemid=90

for example:


The "new" Channel Master 7777 is probably still the best preamp for you. It is easily overloaded by strong signals, but you don't have any. Based on an estimate of your location, I also don't see any strong FM signals that would interfere with the reception of channel 6. The 7777 has an internal FM filter that is set to IN by default, but I'm not certain if that will affect channel 6 or not. See attachment 2. You can do your own FMFOOL report here:
http://www.fmfool.com/

Alternate preamps are the CM 7778 with a little less gain but more resistance to overload, and the RCA TVPRAMP1R which is less expensive but has a history of quality control problems.

Quote:
I will be purchasing and installing antenna in the next month and a half. I will be renting a lift to install a chimney on one side of the house and thought that would be a good time to install the antenna.
I understand your problem, but I don't think it's a good idea to mount an antenna on the chimney until the mortar has reached full strength. And I question the wisdom of mounting a large antenna on the chimney even after the mortar has reached full strength.

Quote:
The install of the antenna for me will be a one shot deal as I will not be able to get on the roof with ladders I need the lift. and at the price of rentals I can only do this once.
Because of so many unknown factors, like the trees, there is no way I can guarantee immediate success; some experimentation might be required.

The coax shield should be grounded with a grounding block that is connected to the house electrical system ground with 10 gauge copper wire for electrical safety and to reject interference. For further compliance with the electrical code (NEC), the mast should also be grounded in a similar manner to drain any buildup of static charge, but the system will not survive a direct strike.



Quote:
The house is off-grid and the power system (Batteries and inverter system) is in garage and ground rods are in place.
Inverters can cause interference to TV reception. Sine wave inverters cause less interference than modified sine wave (which really should be called modified square wave) inverters. The interference can be conducted, radiated, or both. Some off-grid systems have a small sine wave inverter like the Exeltech XP125 for the TV and move the antenna away from the house as much as possible. (I read Home Power Magazine.)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Aiming ANT2.JPG (91.1 KB, 1220 views)
File Type: jpg agmccallTVF FM est.JPG (112.5 KB, 336 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 14-Sep-2015 at 12:02 AM.
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 12:19 AM   #18
agmccall
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thanks Rabbit for your response.

The antenna will not be on the same side of the house, I should have been more clear about that.

As for the preamp suggested. Can that be put in the basement or does it have to mounted to the mast with the antenna?

I have coax run in the house where I want my TV's and they all come together in the basement. Should I use the channel Master CM3414 4-Port Distribution Amplifier for Cable and Antenna Signal with it as a splitter or should I get an unamplified splitter.

The image you posted was close. My house is actually the one hidde by the (+) sign in the top left of the image.



Thanks again

al
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 12:20 AM   #19
rabbit73
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Besides the interference from the trees, you also have terrain interference for the signals on their way to your location:

Your weakest signal (the transmitter is at the left end; your location at the right):





Your strongest signal:





VHF signals can make it over the peaks better than UHF signals, by refraction.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg agmccallTVFprofile1a.JPG (64.0 KB, 1213 views)
File Type: jpg agmccallTVFprofile1.JPG (118.2 KB, 1159 views)
File Type: jpg agmccallTVFprofile2a.JPG (60.6 KB, 1234 views)
File Type: jpg agmccallTVFprofile2.JPG (115.2 KB, 1187 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 14-Sep-2015 at 1:01 AM.
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Old 14-Sep-2015, 12:56 AM   #20
rabbit73
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Quote:
As for the preamp suggested. Can that be put in the basement or does it have to mounted to the mast with the antenna?
The closer it is to the antenna, the better. The signals should be amplified before they encounter the coax loss. The amp cannot recreate a weak signal once it is lost. Also, the total system noise figure is best improved by the preamp when close to the antenna, which benefits the weakest signals. However, you are welcome to try it down below; I understand your desire to avoid having to go up there any more than necessary. That is not the best location because you would lose half the signal (3 dB). The attenuation factor for RG6 is about 6 dB per 100 feet for UHF.

Quote:
I have coax run in the house where I want my TV's and they all come together in the basement. Should I use the channel Master CM3414 4-Port Distribution Amplifier for Cable and Antenna Signal with it as a splitter or should I get an unamplified splitter.
I suggest the preamp near the antenna and one TV below for a test. Then, add a passive 4-way splitter for more TVs. If there isn't enough signal, replace the splitter with a 3414.

DO NOT combine cable and OTA signals. It might cause cable signals to be radiated by your antenna system, which is illegal. The FCC has strict limits for radiation by cable systems because some channels are in the aircraft band.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q...+system+egress
https://www.fcc.gov/guides/cable-signal-leakage

Quote:
The image you posted was close. My house is actually the one hidden by the (+) sign in the top left of the image.
Thanks for telling me; I rarely get to find out how close my guess was because this site tries to protect the identity of users.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 14-Sep-2015 at 12:24 PM.
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