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Old 24-Nov-2013, 1:50 AM   #1
navagator
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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Advice on whether to purchase a new antenna or not

Hello,

First of all, here is my TvFool signal analysis:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...46aed217075afd


And here is my antenna system:
I have a Radio Shack VU-160 VHF/UHF antenna mounted approximately 33' in the air on a 3 piece telescoping pushup pole. Connected to the antenna is the outside part of my Archer 15-1108 amplifier.
From there I have a 50' section of coaxial cable ( no identification is printed on the side of this coax but Archer is imprinted on the molded end ), which is connected to another 50 foot section of Channel Master 9540 coax
via a barrel connector. This section of coax hooks up to the inside portion of the amplifier.
I have a small jumper from the preamplifier to a A/B switch, then a small jumper to my LG LST-4200A HD OTA tuner.


Okay, the main channel that I watch is channel 13.3 - WHO (AntennaTV)
Generally I get a fairly stable signal from WHO but at times I do have signal drop outs. Usually not that bad, but on occasion the signal drop outs can be quite frequent and very irritating.
I would also like to receive channel 8 - KCCI. They have a METV feed that
I would enjoy, however for some reason I can't get KCCI at all.

My rotor has been failing for some time now and this fall it just basically wore out, so I purchased a new one. Unfortunately due to my fear of heights I can't get up on the roof and change it out, so I'll have to find someone to help me with this. And I'm mulling over whether to keep the antenna and amplifier I currently have or purchase a new antenna and amplifier.

According to my TvFool report I have a -11.5NM for WHO. My antenna has a gain of 7.8 for channel 13. This would only bring my NM to a -3.7. If I raise my antenna another 10 foot I would bring my NM to a -7.1 which
after I add my antenna gain would bring me just slightly into the plus area. Now, from what I understand my amplifier isn't the best amp. My manual says it has a gain of up to 26db but I believe I read somewhere that it has a noise figure of 6db. I'm not sure how that figures in to the equation.
The amp does seem to be helping me at the current time though, with
the amp on I show about a 50% signal, with the amp off my signal drops to about 25% and I have no picture.


As you can see from the pictures below, one of the VHF elements on my current antenna has came unlatched and has folded back against the boom and the upper wing of the UHF reflector has also came loose and is resting on the top of the boom.

Would my current antenna and amplifier work better for me if I fix the elements and raise it up another 10' or would it be better to purchase a new antenna and preamp?

I've been looking at the Winegard 8200U, it has a gain of 12db on channel 13 which should put me at a + 4.9 at 43' in the air. Would I need an amplifier with this antenna? If so, what size amp would I need?

Thanks in advance for your help.



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Old 24-Nov-2013, 4:37 AM   #2
GroundUrMast
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I think the existing antenna has served well but needs to be replaced.

Have you seen WOI, real CH-5 or WHBF, real CH-4 with the existing system? If so, consider the Winegard HD7084P equipped with an RCA TVPRAMP1R preamplifier. If not, then consider the HD7698P + preamp.
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If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)

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Old 24-Nov-2013, 4:50 AM   #3
StephanieS
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Yes, a warrior UHF/VHF combo indeed, with a moonraker CB beam in the background!

On a serious note, your reception of WHO, is it via RF8 or RF27? In looking at your translators at magnetic 150, K27CV is reported to be retransmitting WHO.

SS
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Old 24-Nov-2013, 10:40 AM   #4
navagator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GroundUrMast View Post
I think the existing antenna has served well but needs to be replaced.

Have you seen WOI, real CH-5 or WHBF, real CH-4 with the existing system? If so, consider the Winegard HD7084P equipped with an RCA TVPRAMP1R preamplifier. If not, then consider the HD7698P + preamp.
Thank you for your reply. I do receive WOI occasionally, usually at night. But, really not that often though. I don't remember receiving WHBF though.

The Winegard 7084P looks great but it lists a slightly lower gain of 10.8 for channel 13. I see where the 7698P is tuned more for H-VHF, I can't find a gain for channels 2 through 6. Would the gain be substantially less on L-VHF?

Thanks.
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Old 24-Nov-2013, 11:03 AM   #5
navagator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StephanieS View Post
Yes, a warrior UHF/VHF combo indeed, with a moonraker CB beam in the background!

On a serious note, your reception of WHO, is it via RF8 or RF27? In looking at your translators at magnetic 150, K27CV is reported to be retransmitting WHO.

SS
Thank you for your reply.

I receive WHO on real CH-13. Sadly, the translator is no longer is service. I hadn't received a signal from the translator in a long time, granted I haven't moved the antenna in that direction for quite some time though. I'm not completely sure if they were transmitting or not. They took down their tower a few years back and moved it to a new location and it took quite a while for them to erect the tower once again.
But I just read where they had sold the new land they purchased and dissolved the translator system. It's a real shame.

I'm quite fond of the old Moonraker antenna but I haven't used it in a number of years. It's probably going to come down next year, one of my neighbors is interested in it.

Thanks
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Old 24-Nov-2013, 2:13 PM   #6
StephanieS
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I am impressed with your reception of negative db signals. With my setup, I have a -5 and -6 db signals available. Sadly, I've never been able to test those signals because if I were to point my beam at them, I'd be shooting through my most powerful signals @ 15 miles distance. Result would likely be overload.

GroundUrMast's suggestion is as good as they come.




Quote:
Originally Posted by navagator View Post
Thank you for your reply.

I receive WHO on real CH-13. Sadly, the translator is no longer is service. I hadn't received a signal from the translator in a long time, granted I haven't moved the antenna in that direction for quite some time though. I'm not completely sure if they were transmitting or not. They took down their tower a few years back and moved it to a new location and it took quite a while for them to erect the tower once again.
But I just read where they had sold the new land they purchased and dissolved the translator system. It's a real shame.

I'm quite fond of the old Moonraker antenna but I haven't used it in a number of years. It's probably going to come down next year, one of my neighbors is interested in it.

Thanks
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Old 24-Nov-2013, 2:32 PM   #7
tomfoolery
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Out of curiosity, and because it's an interesting problem, I ran the report based on the Lat/Lon in your report, but at 43 ft (10 ft higher), and the NM for WHO actually went further negative. Presumably it has something to do with it being listed as 'tropo'.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...46ae9d09e39580

I don't have an answer, of course - I'm just following along as it's an interesting discussion.
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Old 24-Nov-2013, 2:48 PM   #8
teleview
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+=>
-------
In the , www.google.com , www.yahoo.com ,search box type in.

ottumwa area translator system inc.

The ottumwa area translator system Face Book page says the tower is now Up.

Last edited by teleview; 24-Nov-2013 at 10:28 PM. Reason: Clarify information and typos.
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Old 24-Nov-2013, 6:21 PM   #9
teleview
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+=>
--------
Here are some ways to find information about Tv stations and what Programing is transmitted.

In the , www.google.com or www.yahoo.com , search box , type in variations of the Tv station call sign.

As examples , k23ci , k23ci tv , k23ci-tv , k23ci lp , k23ci-lp , and so forth.

As examples , kcci , kcci tv , kcci-tv , kcci , kcci lp , and so forth.

2 web sites and not the only web sites that will find that have a lot of Pratical and Usefull information are , wikipedia and rabbitears.info .


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

At the , www.fcc.gov , web site , in the search box at the FCC web site , type in , tv query , tv query broadcast station search .

--------

Can also type this in the , www.google.com , search box

transition.fcc.gov/mb/video/tv.html



-----------

In the , Call Sign , box type in the tv station call sign.

Such as , kcci or k23ci .

The FCC web site shows that the Repeater Transmitter are Licensed as , Analog transmitters. Not Digital .

Analog can only transmit one channel of programing.

Digital Tv stations can transmit more then one channel of programing.

Sometimes the originating Tv station , such as KCCI will have only one network on a Analog transmitter , such as CBS.

And can also be two networks on the Analog transmitter ,

By transmitting one network and then the other network , by devideding up the day and night.

So the question is.

Knowing that you will like to watch CBS and Me-Tv.

What Network/s are on the Analog Repeater's (Translators)??

A way to find out is to call the Tv stations on the telephone and have a infoational chat with the engineering department.

---------

My recommendation for the antenna/s , will be based on what is being what Networks are being transmitted on the repeater translators.

---------

KCCI channel 8 will be tough to receive reliably.

So if , k23ci , has both Networks , might do it that way , because the signal is closer and stronger.

Last edited by teleview; 25-Nov-2013 at 4:53 PM. Reason: Clarify information and typos.
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Old 25-Nov-2013, 4:25 AM   #10
navagator
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomfoolery View Post
Out of curiosity, and because it's an interesting problem, I ran the report based on the Lat/Lon in your report, but at 43 ft (10 ft higher), and the NM for WHO actually went further negative. Presumably it has something to do with it being listed as 'tropo'.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...46ae9d09e39580

I don't have an answer, of course - I'm just following along as it's an interesting discussion.

Hmm, I see that.

When I run the interactive tv coverage tool at 43 ft., it shows WHO as being a 2edge signal with a NM of -7.1.

Actually the radar plot shows a NM of -6.9, here is the signal analysis: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...46ae952a762207

Last edited by navagator; 25-Nov-2013 at 4:45 AM.
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Old 25-Nov-2013, 4:40 AM   #11
navagator
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by teleview View Post
+=>
--------
Here are some ways to find information about Tv stations and what Programing is transmitted.

In the , www.google.com or www.yahoo.com , search box , type in variations of the Tv station call sign.

As examples , k23ci , k23ci tv , k23ci-tv , k23ci lp , k23ci-lp , and so forth.

As examples , kcci , kcci tv , kcci-tv , kcci , kcci lp , and so forth.

2 web sites and not the only web sites that will find that have a lot of Pratical and Usefull information are , wikipedia and rabbitears.info .


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

At the , www.fcc.gov , web site , in the search box at the FCC web site , type in , tv query , tv query broadcast station search .

--------

Can also type this in the , www.google.com , search box

transition.fcc.gov/mb/video/tv.html



-----------

In the , Call Sign , box type in the tv station call sign.

Such as , kcci or k23ci .

The FCC web site shows that the Repeater Transmitter are Licensed as , Analog transmitters. Not Digital .

Analog can only transmit one channel of programing.

Digital Tv stations can transmit more then one channel of programing.

Sometimes the originating Tv station , such as KCCI will have only one network on a Analog transmitter , such as CBS.

And can also be two networks on the Analog transmitter ,

By transmitting one network and then the other network , by devideding up the day and night.

So the question is.

Knowing that you will like to watch CBS and Me-Tv.

What Network/s are on the Analog Repeater's (Translators)??

A way to find out is to call the Tv stations on the telephone and have a infoational chat with the engineering department.

---------

My recommendation for the antenna/s , will be based on what is being what Networks are being transmitted on the repeater translators.

---------

KCII channel 8 will be tough to receive reliably.

So if , k23ci , has both Networks , might do it that way , because the signal is closer and stronger.
Thank you for your reply.

From what I understand the translator has been dissolved. Here is a link to NorthPine's Facebook page where I found the information: https://www.facebook.com/northpine/p...51523391561204 .

It may have been in operation though. If it was, I'm afraid I couldn't pull it in.
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Old 29-Nov-2013, 3:44 AM   #12
navagator
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GroundUrMast View Post
I think the existing antenna has served well but needs to be replaced.

Have you seen WOI, real CH-5 or WHBF, real CH-4 with the existing system? If so, consider the Winegard HD7084P equipped with an RCA TVPRAMP1R preamplifier. If not, then consider the HD7698P + preamp.

Thank you for your suggestions.

I think I'll go with the HD7698P + preamp and raise my pushup pole another 10 foot. I think I'll also replace my coax with a good 100' single piece of coax. Solid Signal seems to have the best deal I could find on coax, 100' quad shielded, solid copper conductor with connectors for just under $33 shipped.

On another note, yesterday I was experiencing very heavy signal dropouts on CH 13 - WHO. It was so bad you just couldn't watch it. I started tinkering around with things behind my TV and noticed that my preamp was turned up almost all the way, probably 85 to 90 percent open. I turned it down and the signal stabilized. So I decided to just turn it down all the way and see how it worked, my signal went down slightly but I haven't experienced any dropouts since. Evidently the amplifier was overdriving my tuner.

Thanks again.
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Old 20-Sep-2014, 11:15 PM   #13
navagator
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 22
Hi,

From my last posting I have managed to get a hold of a new 100' piece of solid signal's solid copper core quad shielded coax, new rotor wire, a new rotor, and an RCA TVPRAMP1R amp. I don't have the antenna and probably won't until next spring/summer.

What I would like to do is go ahead and take the old antenna down and fix it up a bit and reinstall it along with the new rotor/cable/coax before this winter.

My question is, would I be better off to go ahead and install the new RCA TVPRAMP1R amp or stick with the old Radio Shack I have now. It's a Archer 15-1108.

Thanks.
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