Advice appreciated

TitanJeff · 13-Jul-2015, 12:53 PM

I'm ready to cut the cable (all except the internet) so am researching options.

Here's my report:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...8e03ce63e33232

My goal is getting the main networks (ABC, NBC, CBS & FOX) mainly for NFL and college football games.

I'd like to put an antenna in the attic. I have a total of four TVs I'd like to get a signal to. Any recommendations to help me get started?

Thanks.

TitanJeff · 14-Jul-2015, 2:01 PM

Forgot to mention that the attic is pretty tall. Two-story house with a steep roofline.

ADTech · 14-Jul-2015, 2:19 PM

What is outside your roof in the direction of due north +/- 10°?

ie, clear path, trees, neighbor's house, etc.

TitanJeff · 14-Jul-2015, 2:27 PM

Due north is the edge of another tall home and big trees with the street beyond with a pretty nice gap to the next house directly north.

About two blocks north starts a large hill.

Thanks for your help.

ADTech · 14-Jul-2015, 3:35 PM

Can you identify a gap between those obstacles on the heading of the main cluster of towers that an antenna can "see" through? It might help to use the interactive map tool. Turn on the green lines, switch to satellite view, turn off the 45° view if it activates, then pan/zoom as needed and place the balloon various parts of your rooftop to provide reference lines towards the transmitters. If the trees and neighboring house are clearly visible in the aerial view, then you can usually get a very good idea of where might be the best mounting candidate locations using the virtual tools.

TitanJeff · 14-Jul-2015, 3:48 PM

I do see a clearing from my roofline if I mount an antenna towards the front of the house. With the steepness of the roof, I should be able to get it pretty high as well.

ADTech · 14-Jul-2015, 4:06 PM

Good, those are all positives for an attic.

Last big "gotcha" is the presence of either a metal roof or radiant barrier under the roof. Either are killers for an attic location.

Assuming those are not present, you'll need a competent UHF plus high VHF antenna. Note: WTVF operates VHF channel 5 as a translator for their channel 25 primary signal. There is no need to chase the channel 5 signal with a low VHF antenna if adequate reception is obtained of the channel 25 source.

Because of the 2-edge signal path for all of your major stations, you may well find that the signals will be either scattered or layered vertically once they get into your attic, assuming they do, that is. That frequently means that patience is required in siting the antenna as you may well have to try multiple spots within the attic to see if you can find one where everything falls into place and they play nice together. Usually, either a 4 or 8 bay UHF antenna tends to work well in those situations for your UHF channels. Many UHF antennas will also pick up stronger high-VHF channels but it's a pot luck situation most of the time. You could, for example, try an antenna like our DB4e or DB8/e (either) and see if channels 8 & 10 come along for the ride. If not, our VHF module will likely do okay. It has the added advantage of being mounted elsewhere should that need arise for the VHF reception.

I'd run the antenna feed to your distribution point using the shortest available path/cable, then install a four port distribution amplifier to send the signal out to the individual outlets and TV sets. If that cable run exceeds 50', I'd probably fall back to using a preamp at the antenna and a passive splitter instead of the distribution amp.

TitanJeff · 14-Jul-2015, 4:19 PM

I can say whether or not I have a radiant barrier. I do know I don't have a metal roof.

What brand is the DB4e or DB8/e? I'll check to see if I can find one.

Thanks again.

ADTech · 14-Jul-2015, 4:20 PM

That's one of ours.

TitanJeff · 14-Jul-2015, 4:26 PM

Okay. Thanks.

TitanJeff · 15-Jul-2015, 6:13 PM

I just went back and re-read your advice and see a recommendation for two antennas. Is there ONE antenna out there which will pick up everything I have a shot at getting?

Again, I am only interested in ABC, NBC, CBS and FOX.

ADTech · 15-Jul-2015, 6:45 PM

C2V or preferably the C4V, both are available at Best Buy. Comes in a box with a 20" mount.

The previous recommendation was optimized for your location and circumstances using individual components to make the system and is likely to be the better choice.

TitanJeff · 15-Jul-2015, 7:43 PM

Okay, thanks. I'm new to this so just wanting to be 100% sure.

If I go with your earlier recommendation, I'd need the DB8/e and another VHS antenna? The advantage being I can point the two to get optimal effect?

If I go with the C4V, I would need only that but risk not getting as many channels?

ADTech · 15-Jul-2015, 7:57 PM

Quote:

If I go with your earlier recommendation, I'd need the DB8/e and another VHS antenna? The advantage being I can point the two to get optimal effect?

No, let me clarify. Your situation requires that you be able to pick up both high-VHF channels (8 & 10) plus UHF channels 14-51.

Although our UHF antennas (C2, C4, DB4e, DB8, DB8e) are all optimized to pick up channels 14-51, they are not at all blind to picking up the high-VHF channels 7-13. I rarely recommend this except in cases where the VHF signals are calculated to be moderately strong as yours are and it usually works out okay. Worst case would be to add our VHF Retrofit module to the UHF antenna which adds a single VHF dipole and does work better than the UHF antenna alone for VHF reception. Our models C2V and C4V mentioned above are retail store models that already include the VHF kit in the box.

Because of the attic location and your location behind a hill my preference is for one of the taller (36-40" tall) antennas (DB4e, DB8, or DB8e) rather than the more compact (18-20" tall) models (C2/4V) because of the vertical layering behavior of UHF signals behind hills. The larger/taller antennas offer more surface area in the vertical axis as well as being more focused (higher gain). These will give you better odds of picking up all your UHF stations more reliably. If you go with the C4V, you may have to do more experimenting to find a "hot spot" where everything comes together but it should still work. The C4V does have the advantage of being in a retail store nearby so you wouldn't have to wait for shipment. Just a heads-up, Best Buy has a very restrictive return window, so keep track of that.

All your stations are within a very small arc to your north so there's no need to aim in different directions.

TitanJeff · 15-Jul-2015, 8:35 PM

I think I understand. Thanks.

TitanJeff · 5-Oct-2015, 1:42 PM

Sorry to bump an old thread but wasn't going to attempt an attic mount until it cooled off some. So now getting serious about this.

What does anyone think of this antenna?
http://www.amazon.com/Winegard-MS-20.../dp/B001DFZ5HO

ADTech · 5-Oct-2015, 2:27 PM

You have no need for an antenna that tries to be omnidirectional since all your stations are in a single direction.

rabbit73 · 5-Oct-2015, 2:33 PM

I don't think the Winegard MS-2002 is the best choice for your attic location. It is a low-efficiency "omnidirectional" antenna element combined with an integrated amplifier that tries to compensate for the low efficiency of the antenna element. If the signal coming out of the antenna element is of poor quality, the amp cannot recreate a good quality signal; GIGO.

For your attic location, with a terrain obstructed path for the Fox signal, you do not want and should not use an "omnidirectional" antenna because your desired signals are all in the same general direction, and Fox is your weakest desired signal. Look at the terrain obstructions for the Fox signal on its way to your antenna:

And notice that only about 20% of its max 1000 kW of power is being sent your way.

Here is another type of profile that shows the hills:

And I see the hill in attachment 4.

The antennas suggested by ADTech are proper for your location. Yes, he does work for Antennas Direct, but he is an engineer-type person, not a marketing-type person, and will suggest the best tool for the job no matter who makes it.

You are certainly welcome to try the Winegard MS-2002, because it is your antenna system, but we feel that your odds of good reception are better with another antenna.

I see a lot of trees in your area that might block signals; see attachment 1.

Quote:

I'm new to this so just wanting to be 100% sure.

Because there are so many variables involved, we are not able to give you a guarantee that our advice will work, as much as we would like to. This is an experiment.

Quote:

I'd like to put an antenna in the attic. I have a total of four TVs I'd like to get a signal to.

Try a temporary setup of a Antennas Direct DB4e or DB8e in the attic aimed at 10 degrees magnetic, with one TV before drilling any holes. The DB8e has a little more gain than the DB4e, but it is larger and more critical to aim. It the TV has a signal strength indicator it will help you position the antenna. You are hunting for Fox. If NBC doesn't come in add the VHF add-on dipole kit, which comes with a combiner.

Once you get the channels you want with one TV, add a 4-way splitter for the other TVs. If the signals are too weak for 4 TVs, replace the splitter with a Channel Master 3414 distribution amp.

You do have some strong local FM signals that might interfere with the reception of NBC; an FM filter might be needed. See attachment 5.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produc...-FM-88-/33-341

If the antenna in the attic doesn't work, you might have to mount it outside and higher.