Reception issues with KSHB in SW Kansas City

[MrJedi]

TV Fool Report: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...67d9023bcbc074

Antenna: Antennas Direct DB4
Location: Inside
Amp/Pre-Amp: None
Splitters: None
Coax Length: approx 6ft
Direction: Approx 55 degrees magnetic (my compass isn't the greatest and isn't consistant in its readings)
Connected to: TiVo Premiere

Issue: KSHB signal fluctuates greatly, all other channels in green come in fine 99% of the time.

Example: Picture and sound between 6PM-7PM were fine with no drop-outs. Between 7:30PM-8PM signal degraded rapidly and the channel was un-watchable by 8PM.

Notes: This isn't a consistent issue for any given time of the day. Sometimes I can watch this channel from 7PM-11PM with no issues. Sometimes I have issues during the day.

Additional TV Fool Reports:
23ft (Height I plan on eventually installing it at outside)http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...67d945d9e7b047
40ft (for comparison) http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...67d9e3bb847c3d

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I tried reading the terrain map for the station but I don't understand which side is supposed to me my location and which is supposed to be the tower.

[GroundUrMast]

Rapid fluctuation of the signal meter reading makes me think of a few possible causes:

1) Multipath - Try moving the antenna, outdoors in the clear is almost always the best place.

2) A poor connection between the coax shield and coax connector shell - Inspect all connections carefully.

3) Signal reflection from an unterminated splitter port - Avoid using a splitter with more ports than needed, use 75Ω F-Termination resistor caps on all unused ports.

4) Interference from FM station(s) or other sources such as computers, appliances, power tools, etc. - An inline FM trap is not too expensive. It's a bit of a stretch, but WDAF FM 106.5 is 1/6th the frequency of UHF CH-42. Turn off powered equipment to see if the trouble changes or goes away. Move the antenna away from sources of interference.

[Electron]

Radio Shack has a good FM trap. Move the antenna to above the roof. Here are some roof mounts. http://www.ronard.com/909911.html , http://www.ronard.com/34424560.html , http://www.ronard.com/ychim.html

[MrJedi]

Originally Posted by GroundUrMast

Rapid fluctuation of the signal meter reading makes me think of a few possible causes:

1) Multipath - Try moving the antenna, outdoors in the clear is almost always the best place.

Yeah I plan on doing that once it gets warmer. I hate working outside in the winter

Originally Posted by GroundUrMast

2) A poor connection between the coax shield and coax connector shell - Inspect all connections carefully.

I'm not sure what this means, but it is a virtually brand new antenna that has never been outside using a brand new coax cable. The center wire seems to be inserted correctly and the connections are tight.

Originally Posted by GroundUrMast

3) Signal reflection from an unterminated splitter port - Avoid using a splitter with more ports than needed, use 75O F-Termination resistor caps on all unused ports.

No splitters are being used. (Currently - if I use an FM trap as suggested below obviously there will be small drop because of the connections if I understand correctly)

Originally Posted by GroundUrMast

4) Interference from FM station(s) or other sources such as computers, appliances, power tools, etc. - An inline FM trap is not too expensive. It's a bit of a stretch, but WDAF FM 106.5 is 1/6th the frequency of UHF CH-42. Turn off powered equipment to see if the trouble changes or goes away. Move the antenna away from sources of interference.

This seems like the cheapest/easiest option to try.

Thanks Electron for the RadioShack tip. I will let you know what I find.

[MrJedi]

A combination of moving the antenna 10 feet and adding an FM trap (I did not test each separately) seems to have solved my problems so far. I have been watching the news on that channel each night with no issues, and one of the shows that I have been trying to watching for the last 3 weeks finally came through crystal clear.

Thanks for your guys' help. This was really helpful and I was very close to plunking down $20 a month to move back to cable.

[phone man]

Originally Posted by MrJedi

[B]Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I tried reading the terrain map for the station but I don't understand which side is supposed to me my location and which is supposed to be the tower.

Regarding the terrain map.. The tower is on the left and your location is on the right.

Glad to hear you found a location that worked better for your antenna. I had a similar experience with a 4 bay antenna inside an apartment. At 35 miles from the broadcast towers, antenna placement was extremely important. Moving the antenna just a couple feet one way or the other made a big difference and would at times only affect only one channel.

Not to stir up any additional issues but if your problem resurfaces, you might try bypassing the Tivo Premiere and connecting directly to your TV to see if you can duplicate the problem. I have a Tivo Premiere which I use for OTA only and it works beautifully, no problems at all. However, some people living in multipath prone environments report signal fluctuation and drop outs with their Tivo Premier compared to previous Tivo units or their TV tuner.
I use a splitter to feed both the Tivo and TV so I can change input settings and go directly to the TV tuner if both the Tivo tuners are in use. This also allows me to compare tuners quickly

[MrJedi]

Unfortunately, I am definitely aware of the shortcomings of the Premiere's tuner. Before a few weeks ago I had just been living with the reception issues. I was previously using a splitter to hook up the TV and the Premiere. There were plenty of times when I was able to get a good signal on the TV, but a choppy one on the Premiere.

However, I decided enough was enough so I got rid of the splitter and hooked up the antenna to the Premiere directly, think I decided to check reception on my Channel Master 4040 first. It worked okay, but I got tired of having to adjust it depending on what channel I was watching (the towers are NE of me and I would have to periodically adjust towards the N or S). I could never find a "sweet spot" for all channels. I switched back to my DB4 and I was able to keep it pointing in the same direction at all times, but I still had issues on KSHB. I moved the antenna, and added the FM trap as I said and it seems fine now. Basically, I wanted to try anything possible before deciding that I need to sell my Premiere and downgrade to a CM-7400.

I may try splitting the signal again, but I want to give it month before doing so. I want to make sure that I have effectively corrected the proper variables before I introduce new ones. I need to buy a better splitter anyway as the one I have has been pointed out on threads here that it has high noise levels. It is also very rare that there is something being recorded on both tuners and I want to watch a 3rd program instead of watching something I have recorded. There is only so much content worth watching when you only have 18 channels .

Again, thank you for the input. Getting rid of cable hasn't exactly been painless, but sites like this have made it easier.

[phone man]

That is weird how some people have reception issues with the Premiere. Lot's of discussion and ideas floating around on that topic as you know. Some swear it's multipath and others say they've seen improvement by attenuating the signal in some way. I suspect some are using amplifiers when it's not necessary. I'd like to see TVfool reports and equipment descriptions for all those with Premiere problems.

If my weakest station is dropping out when using the Tivo, I might, just maybe see a bit of improvement by switching to the TV. 99% of the time, the TV is seeing the same drop out.

[MrJedi]

Well, this weekend WDAF-TV starting becoming an issue with my new setup I described in post #5 when it was previously fine. The tuner info on my TiVo would fluctuate between 0-40. Obviously this frustrated me as it seemed like I had finally fixed the only station I had an issue with, and now a new station is unwatchable. I decided to test all devices that I currently have plugged in that have a tuner and use that as the main variable. My Panasonic TV had no apparent issues tuning WDAF. My USB Hauppauge 23049 worked fine as well even in my basement. But plugged in to the TiVo, the signal went to hell.

For the time being, I have decided to supplement my OTA with cable since I there are 4 shows I watch on WDAF on a weekly basis. I would like to still troubleshoot this though. Since it seems like my TiVo is somewhat of a culperate, does anyone have any advice on this? I haven't been able to find any info on WDAF changing how their signal is transmitted. It is just weird to me that 2 weeks after I move my antenna and add a FM trap I start having issues.

[phone man]

I can only imagine your frustration as it seems one device is being finicky while others have no problem with the current antenna set up. What about padding down the signal in some way? A variable attenuator perhaps?
http://www.antennasdirect.com/store/...FYIUKgodSTPyhg

[MrJedi]

So when I get home last night I tune in to WDAF and Ta-Duh! Perfect picture on both tuners. Must be Casper as we refer to him (weird stuff happens in my house and has for years and my 18 month-old daughter likes to say Hi,giggle and sometimes point at thin air).

Anyway, both tuners were coming in at 66 on the signal meter which is normal for this station. I'm not sure my signal is strong enough to warrant an attenuator, but maybe I don't quite understand how they work. When I have a signal strength in the 50s on my TiVo I start getting issues. If I was having the same issue on KMBC, which I regularly have a strength of 92 I could see that it might work. It's been a long time since I took my RadioShack classes that covered this subject, so a refresher would be appreciated. The Wiki article wasn't as helpful as I would have liked.