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Old 2-Dec-2012, 9:20 PM   #1
patrick_here
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Antenna Advice

Hello,
I live in a rented house in Northern California and am hoping to try to get TV OTA. Here's my signal analysis:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...cc493a6f7f4e7d

I suppose I'd be quite happy to get only the first 19 channels in that list (ie down to Channel 43 KCSM-TV). My house is wood frame and it has fiber cement (like "hardy board") siding and a composition roof.
  1. I'm wondering if I should try a "set top" antenna first since I live in a rented house. What are the Pro's and Con's of this? Doesn't it often happen that people buy these "set top" units and later realize that it was a waste of money?
  2. The folks at Solid Signal mentioned the Winegard MS-2002 for my situation (Outdoor mount ideally, though I may have to put it into the attic). I'm considering going with that one especially because if its appearance. In this location I definitely need an unobtrusive antenna like this MS-2002. Some questions:
    a. I notice that this antenna seems to require power ...right? So if it's mounted on my roof, I need to run 110 volt power all the way up to my roof mount and have it powered-up all the time? I realize that the power draw is minimal but the wiring would seem like a nuisance and technically there are safety issues with 110v wiring outdoors (even if it's low-wattage). What do people normally do to get the 110v to the antenna location on the roof? Are there other non-powered antennas that might be an option for me (with an unobtrusive appearance)?
    b. If I run the coax cable all the way from my roof mount to the point where the current (Comcast) cable enters the house, I'd end up with an unbroken 55' run, then go (thru a splitter) for another 18' to the TV (about 70' total). Is it okay to run the coax that far (this way I could feed the bedroom and living room off of one antenna)? The alternative is to try to run the cable directly to the living room TV location only (not sure if I'd be able to do this) which would cut the cable length down to about 35'. Are these distances long enough to become an issue or is 70' entirely within reason?

This is an amazing site; thanks for the advice!

-Patrick
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Old 3-Dec-2012, 12:00 AM   #2
teleview
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Above the roof in such a manner that the roof or the house does not block reception to the , north west , north east , east , install a Winegard HD7000R antenna aimed at about 311 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Here is a antenna mount that does not make holes in the roof , http://www.ronard.com/34424560.html if using a eve antenna mount then use the #4560 , http://www.ronard.com/ychim.html , http://www.ronard.com.

Buy the ronard antenna mounts at solidsignal by typing the word ronard in the solidsignal search box.

Here are some places to buy antennas and etc. , http://www.solidsignal.com , http://www.amazon.com , http://www.winegarddirect.com.

Universal J type antenna mount , type , DS-3000 or DS-3000-SSCBLS050 , in the solidsignal search box.
_______________

No preamplifier is required.

For 1 Tv connected use no splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a common simple 2 way splitter.

The Tv transmissions are strong signal strength , 70 or more feet of coax is OK.
__________________________

As always , trees and tree leaves do a real fine job of reducing or blocking Tv reception and so do buildings and other obstructions including the roof and house.

It is best to install the HD7000R antenna at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions in the directions of reception of any type or kind including the roof and house.

The Tv/s Must channel scan for the Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , sometimes named the 'Air Channels' or 'Antenna Channels' in the Tv setup menu because the Tv transmissions travel through the air from the transmitting antenna to the receiving antenna.

DO NOT channel scan for cable tv channels.

Last edited by teleview; 29-Dec-2012 at 4:01 PM.
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Old 3-Dec-2012, 2:04 AM   #3
patrick_here
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Posts: 12
More input on this question:

I went out and bought a "rabbit ears" indoor antenna today so I now have more data. With just rabbit ears I can get many stations but many of them are not English language stations. Here is some data on some of the stations I am receiving and some that I'm not receiving ("Y/N"):

RX'd?...STN........Distance....Azimuth.(true.-.degrees)
Y.......KICU-TV........21.............87
Y.......KSTS............21.............85
Y.......KDTV-DT.......21.............85
N......KNTV-DT.......18............325
N......KGO-TV.........23............320
N......KPIX-TV.........23............330
Y.......KQED............21............330
Y.......KCSM............21............330




It seems strange that I'm not receiving KNTV, KGO, and KPIX ( NBC, ABC, and CBS respectively ) but that I am receiving KQED and KCSM ...because they are all at a similar angle to my house and their distance and power is similar. Perhaps mountains could explain KNTV and KGO (325 & 320 degrees respectively) but not KPIX which is at exactly the same azimuth as KCSM.

Thanks in advance for any informed input...

-Patrick

Last edited by patrick_here; 3-Dec-2012 at 2:41 AM.
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Old 3-Dec-2012, 6:39 AM   #4
patrick_here
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teleview View Post
Above the roof in such a manner that the roof or the house does not block reception to the , north west , or , north east , install a Winegard HD7000R antenna aimed at about 311 degree magnetic compass direction.
<...>
No preamplifier is required.
<...>
The Tv transmissions are strong signal strength , 70 or more feet of coax is OK.
<...>
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Thanks very much teleview ...I'll give that a try!
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Old 4-Dec-2012, 10:27 PM   #5
patrick_here
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One more question:

If I aim the antenna at 311 degrees, what about the stations that are located on a completely different azimuth ...will I be unable to receive from them at all?
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Old 4-Dec-2012, 10:54 PM   #6
teleview
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Yes the other directions of strong Tv stations will be received.

The HD7000R is a small antenna and as such , the antenna is not very directional. The HD7000R does have some forward gain and also receives good at front angles to the antenna and back and back angles to the antenna.
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Old 15-Dec-2012, 9:54 PM   #7
patrick_here
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Problem

Problem:
So I install the HD7000R with 70' of quad shield coax from SolidSignal and I get "No Signal".

Using Rabbit Ears I get about 25+ channels ...most of them quite clear. (However the Rabbit Ears do have a little built-in amplifier).

The actual setup is: The 70' cable is connected directly to the the Matching Transformer on the antenna. Then to get to my TV for testing I had to connect another 4' cable (using a female-to-female connector). Then I scan for channels exactly as I did with the rabbit ears and there is no signal (so I reconnected the rabbit ears and re-ran the scan for them).

What do I do now?

-Patrick
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Old 16-Dec-2012, 5:38 PM   #8
teleview
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As a test move the Tv so as to connect to the RG-6 without the 4 foot section of coax.

Look inside the connectors on the ends of the coax , look to see if the foil shield and shield wires are pushed in toward the center wire.

If so , push the foil shield and shield wires away from the center wire.

Replace the antenna to coax matching transformer with a new matching transformer.
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Old 16-Dec-2012, 8:09 PM   #9
patrick_here
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Thank you for these suggestions. I checked both ends of the Coax with a magnifying lens and it looks clean. The foil shielding and shield wires are not touching the center wire.

Some more tests I've run:
1. I connected an Amplified Rabbit Ear Antenna to the coax at my Comcast Cable service entry (which adds a F-to-F connector and about 20' more of cable) and I get excellent reception. (ultimately the 70' cable will be connected at this service entry for a total of 90' of coax to the TV)
2. I connected the HD7000R directly to the TV right in my Living Room through a 5' Coax Cable and confirmed that it works well without the 70' cable (ie: indoors) although it seems to be quite directional; I have to turn it about 10 degrees to get one group of stations or another.

Since the HD7000R works when connected directly to the TV through a 5' cable, do you think that it's correct to assume that the matching transformer is okay ...or is the quality on these matching transformers typically so variable that it's better to get another one just to be sure?

Last edited by patrick_here; 16-Dec-2012 at 8:14 PM.
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Old 16-Dec-2012, 8:24 PM   #10
teleview
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Yes it is Ok to replace the matching transformer.

Yes it is Ok to replace the 70 feet of coax.
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Old 29-Dec-2012, 2:57 AM   #11
patrick_here
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teleview View Post
... install a Winegard HD7000R antenna aimed at about 311 degree magnetic compass direction.
Teleview, please tell me what calculation you used to arrive at the 311 degree orientation ...in view of the fact that so many of the signals in the green and yellow range are in the 330 or 347 degree direction (or 85 degree direction)
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Old 29-Dec-2012, 5:02 AM   #12
teleview
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The following response is a continuation of posts #2 and #6 and #8 and # 10 in this thread.

Another aim direction to try is about 18 degree magnetic compass direction.

The aim directions are to get the most amount of Digital Tv stations/channels with out using a antenna rotator or more then one antenna.

Directional antennas such as and not limited to the HD7000R antenna receive the best at the front of the antenna and also receive to a lesser degree at , front angles , back of the antenna and back angles to the antenna.

The least amount of reception is directly on the sides of the antenna.

It is a balance of Tv station locations and signal strengths.

As always , the starting aim direction of a antenna is --> the starting aim direction.

The antenna can be , turned , moved up and down and newlocated to find the best reception.

Most Digital Tv's have a signal strength meter and some Digital Tv's also have a signal quality meter.

As always , trees and tree leaves do a real fine job of reducing or blocking Digital Tv reception and so do buildings and other obstructions including your own house.

It is best to locate the antenna at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception including your own house.

THe Digital Tv Must Channel Scan for the Broadcast Tv Channels , often named the 'Air Channels' or 'Antenna Channels' in the Tv setup menu because the Digital Tv transmissions travel through the air from the transmitting antenna to the receiving antenna.

DO NOT channel scan for cable tv channels.

____________________________

If you like you can install a antenna rotator , a Channel Master CM9521A antenna rotator.
Antenna rotators Are Not Channel Surfing Friendly , must wait for antenna to rotate and not every one in the house will agree with direction the antenna is aimed.
________________________________________

You can also install more then one antenna.

I recommend 2 HD7000R antennas.

The first one aimed at about 40 degree magnetic compass direction and second one aimed at about 320 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

If the 2 HD7000R antennas are on the same mast , separate the two antennas by 3 feet , one above the other.

The 2 HD7000R antennas Will Not be connected together on to one coax.

The 2 HD7000R antennas will have Separate coax and splitters and etc. All the way to the location/s of the Tv/s and be connected to a Remote control A/B antenna coax switch at each Tv/s location.

http://www.mcmelectronics.com #32-4425. , or , http://www.radioshack.com #15-1968.

Remote control A/B antenna switching is Channel Surfing Friendly , press the button on the hand held remote control , change antennas and keep on channel surfing.

________________

Or you can optimize the aim direction of one antenna and call it Ok.
__________________

Here is the Federal Antenna Law that says Yes you can install a Broadcast Tv Antenna of any size so as to have reliable reception above the roof.

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html.

Hoa's , housing coven-nuts , deeb restricted housing , and etc. , are well aware of the Federal Antenna Law that says yes you can install a broadcast Tv antenna of any size above the roof so as to have reliable Tv reception.
Some keep their mouth shut about it , Some straight out Lie and say there is no Law , and some say the truth that Yes you can install antennas above the roof.
_____________________________________

I have provided clear and easy to understand information and facts.

It is also true that you can do research and believe what ever you choose and install the antenna of your choice.

Last edited by teleview; 10-Jul-2013 at 2:32 AM.
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