Advice needed for Bay Area antenna setup

[strav]

Hi all,

I'm looking for a recommendation for my setup. I'm currently using a roof mounted Winegard FL6550A FlatWave Air Outdoor antenna (built in amplifier), with about 60 feet of cable (no splitters yet) to a HDHomeRun tuner. Antenna is currently pointed at 318 degrees. I'm trying to get at a minimum the following stations:

KTVU
KRON
KPIX
KGO
KNTV

TV Fool Report: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...46aebd9a8e7b23

Currently, KTVU, KGO and KNTV work well. I'm able to get a lock on KPIX, but I get a fair amount of pixelation every minute or two. I can't seem to pick up KRON at all.

Ideally, I will eventually add a second HDHomerun Tuner and also hook up the 2 TV sets. 4 connections in total.

Any suggestions on how to pick up KRON and improve the signal from KPIX?

Thank You!

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Disconnect and Remove Flat panel Air antenna and All other parts , power injector , power supply and etc. .

Above the Peak of the Roof in such a manner that reception is not , obstructed , impeded , blocked , buy the roof and building in the directions of , north west , north , north east , south.

Install a Channel Master , CM5016 antenna aimed at about 345 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html

Use a Real and Actual magnetic compass to aim antenna.

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A Winegard , DS3000 J pole type antenna mount is a good mount with the CM5016 antenna.

Test reception - Without - a antenna system amplifier.

If when a splitter is installed , and the reception seems a little weak on the weaker Tv stations in the Yellow reception zone of the Tvfool radar plot and channel list.

Install a Winegard , LNA-100 'Boost' antenna system amplifier before any splitter.

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Here are some places to buy antennas and etc. .

www.solidsignal.com

www.amazon.com

www.channelmasterstore.com

www.winegarddirect.com

[strav]

Thanks for the quick response teleview.

Is the Flat panel Air antenna junk or simply not appropriate for use in my situation?

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The -->Small<-- Flat Panel antennas are not apporpriate for any reception situations.

Their are No Magic Tv Antennas.

Their are No Scam Magic Tv Antennas.

Their are No Honest Magic Tv Antennas.

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As always , trees and tree leaves , plants and plant leaves , have a Negative Effect on Broadcast Tv Reception and so do buildings and other obstructions including your own roof and building.

The Best Practice is to install a antenna at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception including your own roof and building.

[strav]

Gotcha. There is a large tree in the way about 2 blocks away that I can't do anything about. Other than that, I've got no other obstructions.

Appreciate the help! CM5016 is on order. Will post results back once I get it and set it up.

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Please note that HDHomeRun Tuners do not do well with less then perfect Digital Broadcast Tv Reception.

Enough Signal strength is important for reliable reception and then -Signal Quality is More Important for reliable reception.

Please note that --> All Digital Broadcast Tv Reception is Less Then Perfect.<--

Also TiVo Tuners do not do well with Digital Broadcast Tv Reception that is Less Then Perfect.

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Please note that most Tv Tuners Do , Do Well
with Digital Broadcast Tv Reception that Less Then Perfect.

Here are some Digital Broadcast Tv Tuners / Recorders that also Do , Do Well with Digital Broadcast Tv Reception that is Less Then Perfect.

www.epvision.com

And

www.channelmasterstore.com , has tuner / recorders that Do , Do Well with Digital Tv Reception that is Less then Perfect.

[GroundUrMast]

Originally Posted by teleview

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Please note that HDHomeRun Tuners do not do well with less then perfect Digital Broadcast Tv Reception.
...

I have to emphatically disagree.

I own and operate several HDHR tuners. They tolerate less than perfect signals quite well and they provide the best signal metering functions of any tuner I've come across thus far. Perhaps you can point to other tuners that outperform the HDHR, but thus far, I've only observed slight differences between the HDHR and my VISO. Our Toshiba TV is more likely to show visible impairments than the HDHR when dealing with the same marginal signal.

http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=820

[StephanieS]

I agree with the suggestion to get another antenna that is high-VHF and UHF compatible. You have healthy signals and line of sight. The outdoor amplified antenna is the wrong application for you. There is enough signal out there the amplification may be working against you.

Before adding any amplification in your chain, off of a new antenna's single lead, test reception into 1 TV only. Make sure signals coming off the antenna are satisfactory. Then as you add splitters and multiple feeds, you can see at what stage you may need amplification.

How long is your lead before you intend to split 4 ways? What distance do you see each lead roughly being?

This is one of the nicer radar plots I have seen out of the San Francisco area. There have been quite a few posted here that have been brutal.

You even have a shot at NBC and FOX from Monterey at magnetic 143, that would be a second dedicated antenna though.

Originally Posted by strav

I'm currently using a roof mounted Winegard FL6550A FlatWave Air Outdoor antenna (built in amplifier)

[strav]

@teleview: Thank you for your suggestions for alternate tuner setups. I've been using a HDHomeRun prime with MythTV so switching over to the HDHR is the ideal solution if I can make it work.

@GroundUrMast: Thank you for your feedback on how the HDHR works in your environment. It's nice to hear that my preferred solution is working well for someone.

@StephanieS: Thank you for your input as well. Given the radar plots I suspected that I should be able to get better reception than what I'm getting currently. It's nice to have confirmation. I currently only have a single lead as recommended while I get everything sorted out. The only reason I have amplification is that it was built into the antenna. I will certainly try without amplification with the CM5016 antenna and work from there. As to the splitter, I would expect it to be best to split at the point to produce the least overall total length of cable. That would put the split point at about 45 feet of cable with the 4 additional cable runs being approximately 16', 16', 28' and 18'.

[StephanieS]

Ok, your runs aren't bad at all with about 80' being your max. I have a 2 antenna set up (91xg UHF beam and a RCA ANT751) each one has it's own 100' lead coming indoors, then after the A/B switch I split to a 20' and then 50' run. The total length is 150' at the second TV.

I mention this because the RCA ANT751, which is a strictly local or suburban antenna doesn't have the signal gain your CM5016 will have. The ANT751 with 150' total run, an A/B switch it's signal passes through and being split twice in addition to being unamplified still puts a reasonable signal at the farthest TV.

At one point on the ANT751, I tried to add a preamp, however with all the local strong stuff at 15 and 24 miles, one of my essential signals at 17db strength and 55 miles out was lost. Removing amplification it returned though. Thus, the lesson is amplification isn't always to quote Charlie Sheen, a case of "winning."

Sounds like you are ready to add layer upon layer, carefully noticing at what level you may need to add amplification.

Good luck!

Edit: If adding amplification is needed, I may opt for the Channel Master 3414 at the end of your 45' drop and let it provide 8 db of amplification to your 4 split leads to overcome losses.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_6593414...er-reviews-tab

@StephanieS: Thank you for your input as well. Given the radar plots I suspected that I should be able to get better reception than what I'm getting currently. It's nice to have confirmation. I currently only have a single lead as recommended while I get everything sorted out. The only reason I have amplification is that it was built into the antenna. I will certainly try without amplification with the CM5016 antenna and work from there. As to the splitter, I would expect it to be best to split at the point to produce the least overall total length of cable. That would put the split point at about 45 feet of cable with the 4 additional cable runs being approximately 16', 16', 28' and 18'.

[tomfoolery]

Originally Posted by teleview

Install a Channel Master , CM5016 antenna aimed at about 345 degree magnetic compass direction.

Not to be difficult, and allowing that I missed something, but why did you recommend a unit with low-VHF elements when there are no low-VHF channels until you get way down the list to the 2 edge stations with weak signals?

[ADTech]

I also have to question the recommendation of an all-channel combo antenna. That thing is over 8' wide at the back and those elements are going to do nothing except become perches your your local birds without providing any additional channels.

There is plenty of signal power available for all your local stations such that there really shouldn't be any need for any amplification unless there's something exceptional about your cabling scheme.

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As I have stated here at Tvfool several times.

California Tv stations have , construction premits and are using the construction premits to transmit on the VHF low band channels 2 thru 6.

The longer reception elements of All channel antennas are desinged to receive the VHF low band channels.

And as I stated in the past several times here at Tvfool , the longer reception elements help Reduce Multi-Path off of the mountains that is a Real problem in Califorina.

And the longer reception elements act as reflectors to improve forward reception.

[GroundUrMast]

That's a novel theory, rarely supported by real world results. The addition of unneeded L-VHF reception frequently introduces increased FM signal levels in the system, resulting in interference that could have been avoided. The chance of that problem is reduced by using an antenna that is limited to the band of frequencies that covers just the channels of interest to the viewer.

[ADTech]

1. California Tv stations have , construction premits and are using the construction premits to transmit on the VHF low band channels 2 thru 6.

2. The longer reception elements of All channel antennas are desinged to receive the VHF low band channels.

3. And as I stated in the past several times here at Tvfool , the longer reception elements help Reduce Multi-Path off of the mountains that is a Real problem in Califorina.

1. Sure. None are in the Bay area though, so that argument isn't relevant.

2. Correct. That is their ONLY reason for being there.

3. Where is the data that supports that theory?

As I have done in the past here at Tvfool , and at some point such as now.

Presenting data and information will not do any good.

The sun comes up in east and sets in west.

Some people disagree , and data and information will not make any difference.

[GroundUrMast]

Presenting data and information will not do any good.

I disagree. When you or any other member presents valid data, it's very helpful.

But a statement in and of itself is not data, it's simply opinion. In this forum you are free to hold fast to your opinion, no matter how little evidence there is to support it. But there is a caveat; When the statement is contrary to other peoples experience and observation, it's reasonable to expect them to challenge the validity of that statement.

You clearly prefer to recommend all channel antennas when there is any chance of a L-VHF signal being present, now or in the future. I wonder if you hope that by installing L-VHF capability, the L-VHF spectrum will be better defended against it's loss to other commercial services? (I'm just speculating. I don't know why you are so adamant about this issue.) The bottom line is, your are entitled to your opinion... as are all other members of this forum.

Opinions that weigh the wind load, cost, potential interference, esthetics, or any other factor, deserve to be heard just as loudly as yours. Given that any of these factors can only be estimated when sitting at a computer, it's quite reasonable to expect that there will be a significant range of opinion.

The opinions are welcome so long as they are presented in a civil tone or better.

The Pratical and useful information about Tv recepetion with antennas and Tv antennas.

Many articals and books through the 1920's , 30's , 40's , 50's , 60's , 70's and early part of 80's .

In such and not limited to , Radio News , Radio & Tv News , Popular Electronics , Radio Electronics , RCA , Philco , Westinghouse , BELL Labs , DuMont Television and on and on.

The Pratical and Useful Information About Television Reception with Antennas and Television Antennas is all there in the used books and used magazines at the used books and used magazine web sites.

Here is book that will provide a Strong Dose of Pratical and Useful information.

Better Television Reception in Fringe and Low Signal Areas , by , Editors & Engineers .

[GroundUrMast]

We have now officially highjacked the OP's thread. Feel free to continue the the general L-VHF reception/antenna conversation in the appropriate thread. http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=2858

Any further posts to this thread need to be relevant to the OP's request.