Advice Please, stations are very close or fairly far

RichCNY · 26-May-2011, 3:04 AM

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5747ebcba5bc9e

Currently I have a Clearstream2 in the attic and can pick up 30,27,29. 30 and 27 are both right up the street from me at the top of a hill (2.2 Miles), and 29 is 13 Miles away at about 60 degrees difference. I would like to get stations like 47 or 25 but they are in the opposite direction of 30,27 at a distance of 47 miles. To this end I will be purchasing a new antenna and roof mounting it. I have read that a high gain multi-directional (DB8?) might cause problems with the close stations. However I have also read that a uni-directional might pick up 30 and 27 if aimed at 47,25 but I don't want to lose 29.

Please give me some suggestions/opinions on what is the best way to go here.

Thanks in advance,
Rich

GroundUrMast · 26-May-2011, 3:59 AM

Finding an antenna that will receive 25 and 47 is fairly easy. The DB-8 would do well when facing 269° compass. Unfortunately, I have not seen the front/back ratio published for the DB-8 so I can't estimate if enough signal will get in the back end to offer reception of 30, 27 & 29. FWIW, the DB-8 is far more directional than is implied by some of the marketing out there.

The published specs for the Winegard HD9095P do suggest you can expect a fair amount of signal to make it through the back. However, you will likely experience multipath problems on some or all of the signals from the rear of the antenna because the forward gain of the antenna will be aimed at potential reflected signals.

You can try a single antenna... If you are lucky you'll find a sweet spot that gives you all the stations on your wish list. If that fails, you can go to a two antenna solution using an A/B switch to select the desired antenna. The CS-2 is already proven.

A more expensive option would be to use frequency selective combiner product. www.TinLee.com is a source. With their help you could find a way to combine two or more antennas into one coax.

A rotator is also an option... that I have gone to some lengths to avoid.

Another FWIW, I get 90% or better reception of KVOS which is 70 miles north of my location on the back of a CM-3016. But the shot is LOS and I'm not facing a big flat reflector that would source multipath. (Point being, mileage is only a general aid to estimate signal levels, TV Fool takes into account terrain.)

Tower Guy · 26-May-2011, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichCNY

Please give me some suggestions/opinions on what is the best way to go here.

Any high gain UHF only antenna aimed at Syracuse should pick up those stations. How well it would do in the wrong direction is unpredictable.

The cheapest and easiest solution is two antennas and an A/B switch.

John Candle · 26-May-2011, 7:52 PM

I recommend a AntennaCraft U4000 4 bay bowtie panel antenna. Turn the reflector bars so that the reflector bars are in about a straight up and down position. This will make the antenna into a 2 directional antenna. Point the front side of the antenna , the bowties , at about 78 degrees magnetic compass. Now the antenna will receive stations in the directions of , 51 , 108 , 267 , 300 , degrees magnetic compass.

RichCNY · 26-May-2011, 10:44 PM

Thanks to all 3 of you for the valuable info. I will use the info you gave me to do some more research as it seems there are many different alternatives.

GroundUrMast
I will say that I was also hoping to avoid rotators and a/b switches as I have a HTPC that records content when we are not there and if I needed to record from 2 different antennas or 2 different directions I don't know how I would coordinate that.

Tower Guy
Thanks for confirming that!

John Candle
The 2 directional antenna idea sounds interesting, do you have any feedback on range? Just Curious if 50 miles would be doable or pushing it.

Any other ideas let me know!

John Candle · 27-May-2011, 6:01 AM

Reception strength at the receive location is more important then mileage. How many splits will take place is more important mileage. Will you have , 1 connection , 2 connections , 3 connections , 4 connections , on the antenna coax? . What you will like to receive is more important then mileage. At your location , reception down to WTVH-DT CBS 47 is doable with the antenna connected to one connection point , like to the HTPC or one Tv. Beyond that , I recommend a distribution amplifier , to know the distribution amplifier to use we need to know how many connection points there will be. Also my suggestion is the antenna needs to be on the roof. Not in the attic. WTVH is weak and the antenna will need to be on the roof. Radio Shack sells AntennaCraft antennas.

John Candle · 27-May-2011, 6:12 AM

The reflector screen of the ClearStream2 can be removed and you can put the ClearStream2 on the roof and see what is received.

RichCNY · 27-May-2011, 10:31 AM

John,

Sorry for stating the mileage factor again, I realize there is more to it but its just the first thing that comes to mind. In regards to distribution the signal will travel about 30 ft from the roof (once moved), into a two way splitter which feeds an HDHomeRun network TV tuner (within a foot of the splitter). I can envision somewhere down the line a need to split it possibly 4 ways and maybe distribute via coax to some parts of the house, but for now its only split twice and the coax's job ends when it hits the HDHomeRun.

For a test I have removed the splitter and hooked the coax directly to the tuner (with the antenna still in the attic) and I can get approximately 30% Signal Strength on 47. With the splitter it only drops slightly at this point. If it doesn't rain all weekend I will attempt to move the CS2 on the roof and see what I get from there and I will also check out the Radioshacks in the area to see what they have in stock.

Tower Guy · 27-May-2011, 7:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichCNY

into a two way splitter which feeds an HDHomeRun network TV tuner

You don't happen to have the HDHomeRun tuner with two antenna inputs? If so, put the Utica antenna in input 1, and the Syracuse antenna into input 2.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...w=1280&bih=754

RichCNY · 27-May-2011, 8:02 PM

Tower Guy
I actually do have that model, but the only downside to that setup is if the htpc is using tuner1 with local then tuner2 is the only available with whatever syracuse stations I can get if someone else wants to watch something different on the htpc or a seperate pc. I may end up doing that but it wasn't my "ideal" outcome. Thanks for the tip though!

John Candle · 28-May-2011, 12:09 AM

The reflector screen of the Clear Stream 2 can be removed and the Clear Stream 2 can be mounted on the roof and see what channels/stations you can receive.

GroundUrMast · 28-May-2011, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichCNY

Tower Guy
I actually do have that model, but the only downside to that setup is if the htpc is using tuner1 with local then tuner2 is the only available with whatever syracuse stations I can get if someone else wants to watch something different on the htpc or a seperate pc. I may end up doing that but it wasn't my "ideal" outcome. Thanks for the tip though!

My solution has been to 'pool' several HDHRs and do recordings on an XP box using batch-files and the scheduling utility built into XP. This leaves me the freedom to select the specific tuner (antenna) and have at least one tuner free for live viewing. My previous link has examples of the batch file I use.

RichCNY · 28-May-2011, 4:13 PM

GroundUrMast
I missed the "some lengths" link the first time, thanks for that info as I have been debating getting another hdhomerun for some time but couldn't justify it 100%. I use Media Center on windows 7 to record now as I see that you said your wife does, but I see that your method might have some advantages and would actually prefer the files in mpg rather than the media center files. I will definitely explore that option more.

John Candle
Hopefully tomorrow the weather will be cooperative and I can get up on the roof and mount it, I will definitely try it with the reflector off and see what I can get

Thanks again!

RichCNY · 4-Jun-2011, 9:16 PM

Sorry it took me a while to implement some of the suggestions... I had to wait for a decent opportunity to move the antenna outside. I moved the CS2 outside on the roof and grounded it and ran some RG6 (not quad shield, not sure how much diff that would make).
Its currently pointed at about 255 degrees towards the syracuse market stations and I took the splitter out of the loop and used this on one tuner of the HDHomeRun Dual. I did not take off the reflector screen at this point as I figured I would try it first as it was designed to be used. I'll attach some screenshots of the hdhomerun config signal meter. I know its maybe not the most accurate or correct measure but it hopefully helps you see where I may be having issues and need help.

In regards to 29 and 47.. they seem to pop in and out and sometimes are viewable and sometimes not.

Thanks again!

RichCNY · 4-Jun-2011, 9:19 PM

Also.. this might come up, but seeing as introducing the splitter did cut the signal strength down anywhere from 2-7% can you guys recommend a distribution amplifier ? or is there a chance that might hurt me in some way with the stronger channels ?

GroundUrMast · 5-Jun-2011, 2:14 AM

Amplifiers can increase signal strength but will not correct other impairments. That said, the PCT 8 Port DA handles fairly high input levels.

If you don't see an increase in signal quality, you will need to continue searching for a better antenna location or a higher gain antenna.

Quote:

...ran some RG6 (not quad shield, not sure how much diff that would make).

You're fine, locally generated IF from a satellite LNB needs the extra shielding, OTA signals do not.

RichCNY · 5-Jun-2011, 2:40 AM

GroundUrMast

Thank for the input. Also FYI I did read your whole thread about your use of the HDHomeRun tuners and as part of this endeavor if I'm unable to find one antenna to suit my needs I may end up purchasing a second one and setting it up as you have yours so I can use the two antennas. I just purchased a new machine for my primary HTPC so I may use the other one to setup recording using the batch file scheduled method you used.

Thanks for all the input and help its helped me immensely!

RichCNY · 5-Jun-2011, 4:07 AM

One more question. I know there has been a few recommendations for antennas but unfortunately I have no local suppliers for any of these and would hate to have to buy an antenna and pay to ship it back if it doesn't help. With that in mind is it worth trying an RCA ANT751 as I can pick one up locally at Lowes and return it if it doesn't work for me.. I've seen quite a few comments in regards to this antenna by almost everyone who has helped me here but can't decide based on them if it would possibly make any difference for the stations at 255 degrees (syracuse based).

John Candle · 5-Jun-2011, 7:15 AM

Point the Clear Stream 2 at about 75 degree magnetic compass in between WUTR-DT 30 ABC and WKTV-DT 29 NBC and see what reception you get of the stations in that direction.

GroundUrMast · 5-Jun-2011, 7:31 AM

An RCA ANT-751 aimed that way is simply not enough antenna. Off the top of my head, the CS-2 has more UHF gain by several dB.

If you're going after the stations to your SW (255°), the DB-8, XG-91 and HD9095 are the antennas that would offer the gain needed for solid reception.

With either of the 'long' antennas, I'd expect you to see WNYS (MyN, real CH-44).