Antenna selection help

[rockstar45]

Hi I’m new.

I have been investigation the possibility of picking up OTA signals in my new house. Please see my TV Fool Results here http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9fbe99721c098d

I have been playing with a cheap Philips rabbit ear and loop antenna and have managed to pick up quite a fetw channels. With the antenna on my second floor I can pick up WNYT and WMHT which are listed in red and and a faint WRGB signal. I can also pick up a faint WCWN signal if I hang it outside.

I think it is time for a larger antenna. I would like to mount it in the attic pointing through the gable which has vinyl siding covering it. It is in a perfect westward direction. I would mount it on my roof but it is slate and I have too many other obstructions.

So, what antenna would you recommend? Would an antenna direct DB4/8 work in my situation? What would I do about VHF? I assume I would need a preamp since my rabbit ears has one.

Thanks for your help.

[mtownsend]

Originally Posted by rockstar45

With the antenna on my second floor I can pick up WNYT and WMHT which are listed in red and and a faint WRGB signal. I can also pick up a faint WCWN signal if I hang it outside.

Hello and welcome!

Do you mind clarifying what you mean by a faint WRGB and faint WCWN? With digital signals, you should get a nice clear picture or no picture at all. If you are seeing a "snowy" channel where you can make out some of the picture details, then that is probably an analog station you are looking at (most likely left-over analog translator stations) rather than the main digital broadcasts.



You might be picking up WNYT through their digital translator station W38DL-D. The W38DL-D transmitter is only about 5.4 miles away from you while the main WNYT transmitter is about 45.9 miles away.

W38DL-D broadcasts on physical channel 38 (even though it might show up on your TV as channel 13.1, 13.2, and 13.3). The main WNYT transmitter is broadcasting on physical channel 12. The mapping to the 13.xx channel numbers is a digital TV feature known as virtual channel mapping (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_channel).

Most TVs and set top boxes provide a way to check what real channel number you are watching if you can figure out how to dig through the menus. If you are watching real channel 38, then you know you're actually getting the signal from W38DL-D. If you're watching real channel 12, then you know you're actually getting the signal from WNYT's main transmitter.

I would like to mount it in the attic pointing through the gable which has vinyl siding covering it. It is in a perfect westward direction. I would mount it on my roof but it is slate and I have too many other obstructions.

Do you have a chimney? There are chimney and eave mounts available that do not require anything going into your slate roof. An outdoor antenna will get a better signal than an attic antenna, if you can manage it.

So, what antenna would you recommend? Would an antenna direct DB4/8 work in my situation? What would I do about VHF? I assume I would need a preamp since my rabbit ears has one.

You are correct that you need a VHF capable antenna for WRGB (ch 6) and WXXA (ch 7). The antenna you choose also needs to be pretty big (all the more reason to install it outside instead of in the attic) because most of your channels are pretty weak (Noise Margin numbers around zero or even a little bit below that).

I would recommend the Winegard HD8200U antenna. It's big, but it's your best chance for getting stations with such low Noise Margin numbers (you might be able to get channels with NM values down to about -10dB).

You will also need a good pre-amp like the Channel Master 7777, Winegard 8700, or Antennacraft 10G202. The pre-amp should be installed close to the antenna (usually on the same mast) so that it can boost the signal power before suffering degradation through the cable.

I think that this big antenna and pre-amp pointed west (compass heading 277º) will give you the maximum number of channels.

[rockstar45]

Thanks for the response.

By faint signal I mean the low 15-30 value my TiVo HD gives me on the signal scale. I can usually get a picture if I can pull it in the 60's. I think you are right about the repeater for wnyt.

That antenna is huge - 14ft! The next step is to convince my wife we will be the coolest house on the block with the thing on our roof. Do these things come apart easily once assembled? There may be an eave in the back of my house that is away from powerlines I could try.

Thanks for the recommendation.

[mtownsend]

Yep, the antenna is pretty big, but the stations on your list are blocked by a mountain and you need a very sensitive antenna to pick up the diffracted signal (bending over the mountain top). If you click on some of the stations in your list (like WRGB), you will be shown a cut-away view of the terrain between the transmitter and you. From this view you can see that you are deep in the shadows of a mountain.

Despite the mountain being in the way, according to your tvfool analysis, some channels still have enough signal getting around the mountain to be picked up by a large antenna like the HD8200U.



As for disassembling the antenna after you've installed it, I'd say it's probably possible, but its generally not a good idea to do so. The antenna can mostly be assembled by hand via some screws, wingnuts, and some pieces that snap into position. The assembly steps can be reversed, but some of the "snap into position" parts can be a little hard to put back into their original pre-assembled position.

Winegard antennas have been known to last a long time (10, 15, 20 years), but that's assuming you aren't trying to disassemble it and reassemble it multiple times. After the antenna has been installed and exposed to the elements for a few years, some of the parts (primarily aluminum and plastic) will probably not take too well to being taken apart and reassembled. The risk of bending or breaking parts increases with age. The antenna will continue to perform well for a long time if it is left alone.

If you ever move to a different house, you are probably better off re-evaluating the new house location and buying a new antenna (if it doesn't already have one) that suits the new location.

[Tower Guy]

Originally Posted by rockstar45

I would mount it on my roof but it is slate and I have too many other obstructions.

Would an antenna direct DB4/8 work in my situation?

I'd be skeptical of proper performance with an attic mount antenna in North Adams. Consider a wall or eave mount. The mast then extends above the roof. That avoids both leaky roofs and the losses through the walls.

http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...LAID=468824931 (If you have wider eaves, other sizes are available)

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...0Supplies&sku=

If I lived at your house I'd use two antennas, the Winegard HD 5030 for VHF and an 91XG for UHF, using a Winegard AP 2870 preamp to add the antennas together. I'd aim both of the antennas at the Albany stations, ignoring the signals from Mt. Greylock.

The DB4/8 is the wrong antenna for North Adams.

[rockstar45]

Thanks Tower guy.

I have abandoned the idea of putting it in the attic. The eave it will go.

I like your idea of two separate antennas. I think my wife will like it better as they are much shorter. Will this also be able to pick up channels down to -10db NM values?

I guess I need to research this more, but how do preamps improve the signal? I know they improve the signal, I just don't know how it improves. Do they increase the ability to pick up lower NM values or just preserve the quality?

Thanks for all of your help in my quest to drop cable!!!!!!

[rockstar45]

Originally Posted by Tower Guy

If I lived at your house I'd use two antennas, the Winegard HD 5030 for VHF and an 91XG for UHF, using a Winegard AP 2870 preamp to add the antennas together. I'd aim both of the antennas at the Albany stations, ignoring the signals from Mt. Greylock.

The DB4/8 is the wrong antenna for North Adams.

One last question. Would the 91XG still be able to pick up the Greylock stations while pointed at Albany?
Thanks.

[No static at all]

Originally Posted by rockstar45

One last question. Would the 91XG still be able to pick up the Greylock stations while pointed at Albany?
Thanks.

It's very likely with such strong signals from Graylock, but you may experience an occasional dropout. You may have to fine tune the aim very slightly if the Graylock stations are hitting a null area on the 91XG.

[rockstar45]

Update and a story.

I wanted to provide an update on my OTA adventure. I decided to go with the 91XG and the AP 2870 preamp due to the smaller size compared to the HD8200U. I will try out the VHF antenna later.

Now here is the story. The antenna arrived and my wife flipped out when I mentioned it will be mounted on the side of the house. She was so mad she started taking pieces of the 91XG and hiding them on me. I was able to negotiate them back by agreeing to try it out in the attic. It was like a hostage situation.

I eventually got up in the attic, and to my surprise, I was able to get all of the UHF channels (even the Greylock channels) with NM values of -10.8 and higher. It turns out the gable ends of my house are a “hip roof” style, and I can pick up the signal right through the slate if I position the antenna above the vinyl siding.

My next step is to do some new RG6 cable drops and get a VHF antenna for CBS and FOX. I hope it will work in the attic as well.

My marriage is saved. Thanks again everyone.

[No static at all]

Thanks for sharing the good news on the reception(& the marriage)