Need help selecting Antenna

[sphinx]

I'm looking to see if it's possible to pick up OTA channels in my location. I tried a rabbit ears antenna and a Philips SDV5119. Both antennas only picked up 42.1, 42.2, and 42.3.

Can someone recommend an antenna that can pick up ABC, NBC, FOX, CW, PBS, and KRON? Any help is greatly appreciated. Below is my report.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...a362a143eaf261

[mtownsend]

Hello and welcome!

Most of the transmitters on your report are in the "red" zone on your TV Fool list, which means that it is probably going to require a rooftop antenna to receive them.

The only two "green" channels on your list (which means they are probably strong enough for indoor reception) are KTNC and KRCB.

KTNC, real channel 14, virtual channel 42.1, Azteca America, is broadcasting from Mt. Diablo, south-east of your location.

KRCB, real channel 23, virtual channel 22.1, PBS, is broadcasting from a place near Sonoma. Its signal is coming from the opposite side of your house (north-west). In order to pick it up with one of your indoor antennas, you probably need to reposition the antenna or point it in another direction.



The rest of the major transmitters come from three main groups:

Sutro / San Bruno (these originate around San Francisco, south-west of you)
Monument / Mt. Allison (these originate near Milpitas, south of you)
Walnut Grove (these originate near Stockton, north-east of you)



Sutro / San Bruno and Monument / Mt. Allison together account for most of the "Bay Area" channels.

Walnut Grove accounts for most of the Sacramento and central valley channels. You will find that the network affiliates (ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, PBS, etc.) in the Walnut Grove channel group will duplicate most of the affiliates you find in the other two groups and vice-versa.

You should consider whether you want Bay Area channels, Sacramento channels, or both. This will determine what kind of antenna setup you will need.



Just FYI, your location has many mountains obstructing your signals in almost all directions. Fortunately, TV signals can "bend" (a.k.a., diffract) over mountains, so there is still enough signal to be picked up by your TV. You are only about 30-40 miles from most of the transmitters, but none of them can reach you directly (listed as "1Edge" and "2Edge" paths in your TV Fool report). However, it will require a fairly large rooftop antenna to pick up the signals.

Here is an example of what the terrain looks like between a channel from Sutro (KGO, channel 7/7.1, on left) and your house (on right):

Here is a similar example for a transmitter on Monument Peak (KTEH, channel 50/54.1):

And here's what it looks like for a transmitter from Walnut Grove (KXTV, channel 10/10.1):

[Tigerbangs]

All good information, and absolutely right! Now, the issue is whether or not you are willing and able to install a roof-mounted antenna: If you are, then you will need a near-fringe directional antenna. possibly along with a rotator, to get everything that is available to you. Good choices would be the Winegard HD-7696P or the AntennasDirect HBU-44. Should you want to turn the antenna to see the San Jose, Sacremento, San Francisco and Sonoma stations, you should consider the Channel master 9521a rotator or the AntennaCarft TDP-2. You will NOT see most of the San Francisco stations without a rotator and such an antenna.

[John Candle]

Current and pending channels 2 , 4 , 5 and 6 are VHF low band channels. The television transmitters are all around you. So my suggestion is a All Band VHF/UHF antenna the Winegard HD7084P and this Rotator http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=460 . http://www.solidsignal.com is one place to buy antennas etc. . amazon , starkelectronics , warrenelectronics and other sellers. All so read and understand this http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=695

[sphinx]

Thank you all for the excellent advice. I'm interested in receiving Bay Area channels, especially the ones coming from 223 degrees magn. Would it be possible to get an estimate of how high the antenna needs to be from the floor, or is it more trial and error?

[mtownsend]

If the antenna is on your roof, then you want to make sure the antenna is at least about 4-5 feet above the level of the roof. This helps to make sure that the antenna can perform the way it is supposed to, without being influenced too much by the roof itself.

Beyond that, adding more height will usually not make a huge difference. In a few special cases (like if you're blocked by a nearby building, tree, or hill), it might help to get the antenna higher to clear the obstruction. However, in most cases, the nearest obstruction is so far away (perhaps a mountain a few miles away) that adding another 5, 10, or 15 feet to your mast will make almost no difference at all.



The Sutro channels are blocked by a pretty high mountain range. Out of the three main transmitter clusters available to you, Sutro has the weakest signal. To get these channels, you really need to have the antenna on the roof, and the antenna needs to be pretty big to pick up stations at this level.

If you were thinking of having the antenna indoors, then I'm afraid that it's pretty much out of the question. Almost all of the Sutro channels are in the "red" zone of your TV Fool report.

[John Candle]

At the >Start MAPS< part of tvfool the antenna height can be changed up and down and the red balloon pointer can be moved to other locations. The NM = Noise Margin for reliable reception is 0 NM dB . Watch what happens to the NM when the antenna height is changed. The more positive the number the better , the more negative the number the worse. Noise Margins are calculated to be usable signal at the Tv. The set up is like this , a simple dipole tv antenna , coax cable and one Tv. If you will like to dive off in to the Noise Margin swimming pool more info. can be found on this web site and the internet. Any way try the reception with out a antenna preamp. for now , and see what you get. Some popular antenna mounts are the tripod mount , chimney mount and eave mount. The HD7084P is a big antenna so use a Strong and Strudy mount.

[sphinx]

The wife gave me the thumbs down on a big antenna. I went and bought the Channel Master 2016 from a local store so I could return it in case it doesn't work for my needs.

I held the antenna right above the roof and pointed it toward Walnut Grove transmitters while my wife scanned for channels. I was able to pick up KTNC-TV (Azt), KRCB-DT (PBS), KXTV-DT (ABC), KMAX-TV (CW), KOVR(CBS), KCRA-DT (NBC), and KQCA-DT (MyN). For some reason, I was unable to pick up KTXL-DT (Fox), otherwise my quest for an antenna would be over.

Do you guys have any recommendations for other antennas of similar size that would allow me to receive Fox, or do I just need to tinker with this one? I'm not interested in receiving the low VHF channels, and no longer interested in receiving channels from Sutro. Thank you in advance.

[mtownsend]

The 2016 is a pretty minimalist antenna for channels 7-69. I think you're lucky to be picking up stations as weak as KQCA using such a small antenna. I am also concerned that you may experience channel stability problems (pixellation and/or drop-outs) from time-to-time (e.g., in bad weather, windy conditions, when the seasons change, etc.). I know you're fighting the antenna size issue, but you will probably save yourself a lot of time, money, and frustration if you get the right antenna now instead of having to revisit this again later.

You don't need the worlds largest TV antenna, but you don't want to go too small, either. There are mid-size antennas that have better performance than the 2016 and are more appropriate for your situation. I hope there's a middle ground somewhere that you and your wife can settle upon.

BTW, please remind your wife of how smart she is for getting free, high quality, high definition broadcast television. All you need is an antenna to tap into this great free service. It's a far better deal for what you get than the hundreds or thousands of dollars it costs for cable or satellite TV ($50/mo x 12 months = $600/yr, or $3000 for 5 years).



Having said all that, adding a mast-mounted pre-amp to your setup might improve things a bit (no matter what antenna you end up with). A pre-amp will overcome any coax, splitter, and tuner inefficiencies (losses) that occur after the amp in your receiver chain. The amp cannot alter the intrinsic sensitivity of the antenna, but it can preserve as much of the signal quality as possible before the signal starts "slipping back into the noise" while making its way down into your receiver.

Amps always introduce a tiny bit of noise themselves in the process of boosting a signal, so it's very important to choose an amp with a low Noise Figure spec. Any amp with a Noise Figure of around 3.0 dB or less is considered good. Some good amps to consider are the Winegard AP-8700, Channel Master 7777, and the Antennacraft 10G202. Beware of no-name amps or ones that do not publish a Noise Figure spec at all, because chances are that their noise levels are so high that they almost negate the benefit of having an amp in the first place.

[sphinx]

I am also worried about the signal stability with the 2016. I have the choice of buying the HD7694P or HD7697P at a local store as well. However, the HD7694P doesn't seem to have the range for my needs, and the HD7697P has quite a long boom.

The HBU44 AND HBU33 seem like they would do the job, but I would need to order those online. Keeping signal stability in mind, do you think the HBU33 would serve me well, or is it safer to go with a bigger antenna?

[Dave Loudin]

Without question, go for the biggest antenna you can.