Tough OTA situation - HELP NEEDED

[TRYING TO CUT CABLE]

I hate cable and want to drop them. This is my info at my location:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...46aefeb39b30aa

I have temporarily tried an Antennas Direct Clearstream 2V on my roof with and without a 15Db gain Electroline EDA 2100 used right at the antenna. From there it went through approx 60' of cable with no splits to 1 TV. With this setup, I was only able to get the following channels (plus their subchannels):
with antenna facing south = 33.1, 42.1, 46.1, 51.1 (I barely got 7.1 one time)
with antenna facing north = 12.1, 24.1

Obviously, I'm not delighted because I didn't get ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, and PBS. So, I'm asking for recommendations on a setup that can get me a few of these channels with the antenna installed in my attic because our HOA does not allow roof mounted antennas.

Thanks in advance for the help.
-Joe

[GroundUrMast]

The C2-V would be appropriate if you were closer to Seattle or were on top of a hill with line of sight conditions.

Your situation calls for mounting high, clear of obstructions (Douglas Fir and Cedars are a challenge for us here in the NW).

Your report also indicates the need for a full size antenna system such as an Antennas Direct 91XG + Antennacraft Y10713 + RCA TVPRAMP1R preamplifier.

The HOA is prohibited from enforcing a rule that would prevent you from receiving OTA TV: http://www.fcc.gov/guides/over-air-r...n-devices-rule

[StephanieS]

1X

Hello Joe,

I'm glad you understand out the gate that this is a tough reception situation. Having reasonable expectations makes the process smoother.

That said, GroundUrMast's suggestion is pretty much the go to set up for weak signal reception needs. Also, as he said, getting above the trees if you can will aid your antenna's ability to receive the signals. Not easy though with 100+' treeline!

I notice your plot is dialed in at 10' above ground. Can you rerun it in installments of 25', 50' and 100'? Checking different heights can give insight if height works for you, as it normally does, or as in some situations, against you.

Your 10' radar plot is features many single digit db strengths and quite a few negative db signal strengths. Negative db signal strengths can be very fickle due to very weak status. I bring this up because the major broadcasters NBC, CBS, ABC and especially FOX are going to patience and testing. I operate a 91XG and my weakest reliable signal is at 7.0 db. I have some negative db signals available, however I can't shoot them because I'd be pointing the 91XG just a few degrees off of my major local cluster which is line of sight at 16 miles (and 65 db signal strengths). The result would be especially with the RCA preamp, likely be receiver overload.

If your additional height yields improvement then there may be some additional thoughts.

I'll continue this after seeing your plots with the differing heights and if the signal strengths change much.

SS

Your report also indicates the need for a full size antenna system such as an Antennas Direct 91XG + Antennacraft Y10713 + RCA TVPRAMP1R preamplifier.

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The 10 foot antenna height above ground shows very poor signal strengths.

I suspect higher antenna heights will show Much Improved signal strengths.

Please make and post Tvfool radar plot and channel list reports using the correct address at , 25 , 40 , 60 , 100 , feet antenna height above ground.

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Here is the Federal Antenna Law that says Yes you can install Broadcast Tv Antenna of Any Size so as to have Reliable Reception.

Hoa's , housing coven-nuts and etc. know this law and know that you have the Legal Right.

www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html


Thanks.

[TRYING TO CUT CABLE]

Thanks for all of your feedback so far. Below are the links to the signal plots that were requested. The good news is that I have no trees in the way to the south - the bad news is that I live near the top of the hill but I'm in the violet area on the back side of the hill. Also, I saw no real deterioration from testing the Clearstream 2V in the attic compared to the roof. One of the big questions I have is why am I able to get channels 42.1, 51.1, and 46.1 when they are sitting at -18 Nm with the antenna at 10' off the ground and I'm not able to get "easier" channels?

25 ft:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...46aed17730e0fc

40 ft:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...46ae061936eb8f

60 ft:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...46ae9aa12cd4ea

100 ft:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...46ae8a8f599451

[GroundUrMast]

...why am I able to get channels 42.1, 51.1, and 46.1...

Notice the transition between 40' and 60'... the Tiger mountain signals become 'line-of-sight' paths. I suspect Tiger mountain is far enough east of Seattle to be almost out of the shadow of the hill you're on. The resultant path is far less challenging for RF propagation.

[TRYING TO CUT CABLE]

Judging by those new plots, do you think your initial recommendation for the 2 antennas and pre-amp will work?

[GroundUrMast]

A 5' tripod and 10' mast tops out at about 12' above the roof peak. That 12' number is specifically mentioned in the FCC OTARD rules so if you stay at or below 12' above your roof peak, you are protected from both the HOA and local building code restrictions. Above that, I believe you are still protected from HOA restrictions that would prevent you from receiving OTA TV. I believe you may need to deal with the local building department if you opt to construct a tower that exceeds 12' above your roof peak.

I'd go for it... trying at 12' above the roof peak to start. If you can test there without drilling any holes. Use a 10' section of chain-link top rail or conduit and simply hold it while a helper scans for KOMO, KING, KIRO, etc.

[TRYING TO CUT CABLE]

GroundUrMast,

Would you mind giving some reasons for the setup you suggested (Antennas Direct 91XG + Antennacraft Y10713 + RCA TVPRAMP1R preamplifier)? What is the internal gain on the above antennas?

I had been looking at the Wiinegard HD7698P Platinum HD Series Antennaand the Winegard LNA-200 Boost XT Digital HDTV Preamplifier but I see a lot of choices.

[GroundUrMast]

Here is the Antennas Direct specifications for their 91XG: http://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_f...s/91XG-TDS.pdf

Here is the Specifications for the Antennacraft Y10713: http://www.antennacraft.net/pdfs/Y10-7-13.pdf

Note that Antennas Direct uses dBi. Antennacraft and Winegard uses dBd. Both are valid references. To convert, dBi to dBd, subtract 2.15 from the dBi value.

I wish RCA published more comprehensive specifications... However my personal experience with the TVPRAMP1R agrees with other members observations. http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=13530

The LNA-200 seems to be overpriced a bit... http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=13583

My personal experience with the two separate antennas has paid off in being able to optimize the aim of each, resulting in slightly better overall reception reliability. Other members have also reported the combination to be their pick of off the shelf consumer grade antennas when going for peak performance.

That said, the HD7698P is not far behind.

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For reception of ,

KING -NBC

KIRO -CBS

KOMO -ABC

KCTS -PBS

KZJO -MyNetwork

KCPQ -FOX

KSTW -CW

KWPX -ION

And other Tv stations/channels.

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For Reliable Reception , I recommend a antenna at no less then 25 feet above ground. And higher will be better.

Install the antenna above the roof in such a manner that roof and building are not , obstructing , impeding , blocking , reception in the directions of reception.

The directions of reception are , South West , South , South East , North West .

Here are some above the roof antenna mounts.

www.ronard.com/Tripods%200703/4712.html
At www.solidsignal.com , the part number is (RON4712-50-10) .

www.ronard.com/909911.html
Use the , ronard (911) , 5 foot tripod antenna mount.

www.ronard.com/ychim.html
Measure around the chimney and use a , ronard (2212) , ronard (2218) , ronard(2224) .

Buy the ronard antenna mounts at , www.solidsignal.com , or buy from , www.ronard.com .

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Install a www.antennacraft.net , HBU55 antenna with a www.channelmasterstore.com , CM7778 preamplifier.

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Aim the HBU55 antenna at about 184 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antenna , www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html

Use a Real and Actual magnetic compass to aim antenna.

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As always , the starting antenna aim direction is the -->starting antenna aim direction.

The antenna aim direction can be adjusted for best reception.

Most Digital Tv's have a Signal Strength Meter and some Digital Tv's also have a Signal Quality Meter.

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For 1 Tv connected use No splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-2D , 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv's connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-3D , 3 way splitter.

Buy the HFS splitters at , www.solidsignal.com .

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Here are some places to buy antennas and etc. .

www.solidsignal.com

www.amazon.com

www.antennacrtaft.net

www.channelmasterstore.com

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As always , trees and tree leaves , plants and plant leaves , have a Negative Effect on Broadcast Tv Reception and so do buildings and other obstructions including your own roof and building in the directions of reception.

The Directions of reception at your location are , South West, South , South East , North West.

The Best Pratice is to install antenna at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception including your own roof and building.

[TRYING TO CUT CABLE]

Today I did testing in the attic with the following set-up (extending the pole on the roof did not change results):
Antennas Direct 91XG
Antennacraft Y10713
RCA TVPRAMP1R preamplifier

The results were OK (5 channels with a total of 18 subchannels). The only major station we got is CBS (the channel 51 version at 170 degrees not the channel 39 at 205 degrees). So we ended up getting real channels (not the virtual channel numbers) 33, 42, 46, 50, and 51. Now all of theses are at the 170 degree mark except for real channel 50 which is at 205 degrees and it is 100% signal quality and 75% signal strength on my TV.

Here's the big question: Channel 50 has the same origin as the transmitters for ABC, CBS, NBC and more. Why am I not able to get these other stations if I get channel 50 so well? The NBC channel has the same point of origin and higher power but it doesn't come in.

Any ideas on why this is happening?

I'd be happy to get NBC and ABC and call it good.