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Old 21-Dec-2013, 1:27 AM   #1
crashHD
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Is there an antenna good for two directions, 180 degrees apart?

I live between the Kansas City, and Columbia MO area.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...46ae05343a579c

KC is entirely UHF, Columbia is UHF, with 2 VHF Hi stations. There's a third VHF hi (K110J) in Columbia, but I am unconcerned with it. For that matter, I've never heard of any of the stations listed in purple font on the signal analysis page.

I bought a house a few years ago, and just recently hooked up to the antenna "just because it's there". If I had to guess, I'd say it's as old as the house (~30yrs), missing a few elements, and the rotator does not presently work.

Is there a good antenna for pulling from two opposite directions? I'm a little new to this, so correct me if I'm wrong, but what I should be looking for is one with as low of a front to back ratio as possible, right? Or am I stuck on needing either a rotator and picking which stations I want to watch, or needing two antennas?
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Old 21-Dec-2013, 1:55 AM   #2
teleview
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The Tvfool report says is only resolved Approximately.

Please make a Tvfool report with the Exact address.

If exact address does not work , go to the tvfool home page and click on >>Start MAPS<< , select a location/address close to your location , or use zip code , and move the pointer to your location and make and the Tvfool radar report and post it.

Last edited by teleview; 21-Dec-2013 at 2:22 AM. Reason: Clarify information and typos.
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Old 21-Dec-2013, 2:08 AM   #3
GroundUrMast
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ZIP Code Only...

Given that your TV Fool report is flagged: "WARNING: Address was only resolved approximately and might not be that close to your actual location. For more accurate results, try entering a specific address or coordinates.", it's uncertain if the data actually reflects the conditions at your location. As I look at your TVFR, it appears to be based on a ZIP Code only. If that's true, the report could be miles off from your location. In some locations, that can produce extreme errors in the predictions.

When generating a TV Fool report, my preferred method is to open the Interactive TV Maps tool. Leave the 'input method' set to the default, 'address'. Then, enter only the Postal Code, and then click the 'Map This' button.

At this point you should have a map displayed, with a movable cursor located at the center of the Postal Code that was entered. Use your mouse to drag the cursor to the exact location you're interested in. In the upper right corner of the map you can select view types, I find it helpful to use both.

At the bottom of the map, enter the antenna height. Please use the highest value that you can safely consider installing. If you aren't sure, then use 25'. FWIW, You can also find the LAT/LON coordinates of the cursor (in decimal form, not deg/min/sec).

Once the cursor location and the antenna height are set correctly, click on the 'Make Radar Plot' button located at the upper right corner of the map. The TV Fool report opens in a new tab or window. You can then copy the URL from the address bar of your browser, for posting to a thread.

I hope this helps, I just want to be sure we give you advise based on the actual conditions at your location.
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Old 21-Dec-2013, 4:03 AM   #4
crashHD
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I'm reluctant to share that level of detail online.

A tvfool report down to the address level gives almost identical results (signal strengths on relevant stations varying by tenths of a db) to the zipcode level report.

I used 25' AGL as that appears to be considered the standard, but I have a 30 foot tower in my back yard, so that extra 5' should be helpful once I've selected an antenna and worked up the nerve to climb the tower and replace the old one.
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Old 21-Dec-2013, 5:39 AM   #5
teleview
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Looking at the tvfool , Digital Broadcast Tv Current Plus Pending Applications Included radar report and channel list.

For reception of the UHF stations of both directions , down the channel list to and including KQFX-LD UHF channel 22 , FOX.

Install 1 Antennas Direct DB8e UHF antenna. One panel aimed at about 103 degree magnetic compass and the other panel aimed at about 272 degree magnetic compass direction.

The DB8e has 2 , 4 bay Bowtie antenna panels that can be aimed any direction.

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To add KOMU-DT VHF high band channel 8 , NBC and CW.

Install a Antenna Craft , Y10-7-13 antenna aimed at about 94 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

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IMPORTANT --> Use All New , coax , couplers , connections , connectors , etc. outside.

IMPORTANT --> Use RG-6 coax that has the Compression type connectors on the ends of the coax , not the old crimp type connectors.

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A Tv antenna rotator is not required.

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Combine DB8e antenna and Y10-7-13 antenna with a EU385CF-1s , UVSJ = UHF/VHF , combiner from , http://www.solidsignal.com.

Connect the DB8e antenna to the UHF connection of the combiner.

Connect the Y10-7-13 antenna to the VHF connection of the combiner.

Connect a Channel Master CM7778 preamplifier to the remaining connection of the combiner so that both antennas are amplified at the same time.

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For one Tv connected use No splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-2D , 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv's connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-3D , 3 way splitter.

Buy the , HFS-2D , HFS-3D , splitters at , http://www.solidsignal.com , or , http://www.hollandelectronics.com.

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Install the Y10-7-13 antenna below the DB8e antenna on the same mast.

If you can , separate the antennas buy about 3 feet.

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Here are some places to buy antennas and etc. .

http://www.solidsignal.com.

http://www.amazon.com.

http://www.channelmasterstore.com.

http://www.hollandelectronics.com.

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Here is the way that I find out what Networks are on the Tv stations , and more Practical and Useful information.

In the Google or Yahoo search box type in variations of the Tv stations call sign.
Examples , komu , komu tv , komu-tv , komu dt , komu-dt and so forth.

2 Practical and Useful web sites (there are also other web sites) found are , wikipedia and http://www.rabbitears.info

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KOMU-TV.
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www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KQFX-LP .

_________________

The Tv/s Must Channel Scan for the , OTA=Over The Air , Digital Broadcast Tv stations/channels , often named the ~ DTV Channels ~ Antenna Channels ~ Air Channels ~ in the Tv Setup Menu because the Tv transmissions travel through the Air from the transmitting antenna to the receiving antenna.

Some digital tv's will Automatic channel scan for cable tv channels.

DO NOT channel scan for cable tv channels.

Go into the Tv Setup Menu and select ~ DTV Channels ~ Antenna Channels ~ Air Channels ~.

Scan for channels.

Last edited by teleview; 27-Dec-2013 at 2:28 PM. Reason: Clarify information and typos.
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Old 21-Dec-2013, 8:48 AM   #6
GroundUrMast
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I agree with the suggestions of the DB8e and Y10713. However, you can save money and part count by using an RCA TVPRAMP1R which has the UVSJ built in. (It has separate inputs for the UHF and VHF antennas.)

If you fail to get reliable reception from both directions using one antenna it won't be due to the antenna choice, but rather the modest to weak signal levels and any obstructions (if present). You would still have the option to add to the system if needed/desired. http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=2882
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Old 21-Dec-2013, 12:39 PM   #7
Flint Ridge
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ChadHD, good luck, looks like you are about 18 miles NW of my location. Thanks for your input on my post, that would explain my recent issues. Only thing I might mention is with replacing a 30 yr old antenna this would be the right time to replace the incoming coax with RG6 and compression fittings, etc. Let us know how the DB8e works, looks like the perfect justification where you are right in the middle like that.

Oh and I don't think the TVFool report will actually give the address. I used my exact coordinates and then it just brings up the report.

Amazon currently the DB8e in stock for $136 shipped. If it does not work let me know I might have another use for it

Last edited by Flint Ridge; 21-Dec-2013 at 12:52 PM. Reason: amazon note
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Old 21-Dec-2013, 2:52 PM   #8
Don_G
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Man, that report looks tough, but I am not an expert by any means.

I'd suggest you enter in your exact location (get the lat/long from Google Earth if your address is not recognized. Measure the antenna height closely and then get an exact report. Your zip code is not enough.

The report you show looks very tough to me. The good news is that it looks like all the practically reachable stations (maybe down to about 10 dB Noise Margin) are in the UHF band.

It appears to me that you might benefit from a higher antenna. The detailed report will let you know better what's practical.

The good news is that there appears to be no co-channel issues on the achievable stations, so a multiple fixed antenna solution might work.

Two 8-bay UHF bowties, each pointed at one city might get you a non-rotor solution, if you can get a little higher antenna, or a better report.

If your house is actually buried in the trees or down in a hollow you might be toast.

With a properly located report you might get some of the real experts to speak up.

Good Luck!
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Old 21-Dec-2013, 3:19 PM   #9
teleview
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The Tvfool report -->Is Not<--> !!! that bad !!!.

Yes I respect your right to not use your exact address.

Last edited by teleview; 21-Dec-2013 at 6:54 PM. Reason: Clarify information and typos.
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Old 21-Dec-2013, 5:35 PM   #10
crashHD
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I've got most of a 1000' spool box or quad shield RG6, compression fittings, and the necessary tooling. I've already replaced the 30 year old distribution cabling in the house, and added a distribution amp. It was amazing how much difference that made. I will definitely be pulling new cable the first time I climb that tower. Thus far, I have not had to climb it. I dislike heights enough that I will do whatever I can to avoid it if possible.

I don't think it will be as tough as the report indicates. In addition to the antenna on the tower, I have one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Esky-Controlle...pd_sim_sbs_e_1 in the attic. It is a cheap, low quality piece of chinese antenna, and it gets all the KC stations, in my attic, at over 60 miles away, except for wdaf.

I'm not looking to pull in every station on the plot. At minimum, I want the KC stations, all I'm lacking from my current setup is wdaf (4.x, real channel 34). If I can get some of the Columbia stations, that is bonus. I don't know that I want them badly enough to put up two antennas.

If I decide to fix/replace the rotor, what's a good option for a uhf/vhf combo antenna? I was originally looking at something like a Winegard 8200U which seemed to be really well reviewed, but then I found a Winegard HD 7698P is the same antenna sans low vhf elements. Dispensing with the low vhf elements seems like a great way to reduce weight and wind loading.
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Old 21-Dec-2013, 6:21 PM   #11
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The 7698 is a great H-VHF/UHF combo for your application. If there was a pending L-VHF license the 8200 might be more attractive, but for the foreseeable future I don't see any reason to consider it.

FWIW, the combination of the DB8e and Y10713 will do all that the 7698 will. The 91XG + Y10713 is another combo that meets or beats the 7698. (Bias alert: I like antennas and avoid rotators.)
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If the well is dry and you don't see rain on the horizon, you'll need to dig the hole deeper. (If the antenna can't get the job done, an amp won't fix it.)

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Old 21-Dec-2013, 6:52 PM   #12
Flint Ridge
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ChadHD, I'm currently getting the Columbia stations on the backside of my 91XG, but am 15 miles closer to Columbia/Jeff City. The DB8e has a lower front to back ratio than the 91XG. Could it be possible that you could aim to KC like I have, get reliable reception on the backside add the Y10713 fixed VHF with the RCA dual input amp and not have to mess with rotor (sorry moderator)?

If you are dying for a 7698, I think I just took one down, we could chat. That thing is as about as long as a car. If concerned about wind loading there may be much smaller options already mentioned by GroundUrMast, that are much less of a sail in the wind, not that the 7698 is bad compared to the older deep fringe.
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Old 21-Dec-2013, 7:18 PM   #13
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Rotating a antenna and a tv antenna rotator is/are not channel surfing and recording friendly , must wait for antenna to rotate.

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You will be up on the tower , so may as well install the DB8e and Y10-7-13.

Using a preamplifier and a distribution amplifier at the same time is not recommended.

Last edited by teleview; 21-Dec-2013 at 11:56 PM.
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